Starcraft Chieftain 1972 MK4

[jbcurt00]

Re: Chieftain 1972 MK4

Re: Chieftain 1972 MK4

I had no problem enlarging the pages so I could read them, and pulling up the 'To print' page..

May have been a server error or maintenance at Boatinfo or your internet provider.....

Seems good to go now....

 

[cj8mule]

Re: Chieftain 1972 MK4

Re: Chieftain 1972 MK4

Thanks, been looking at that manual and can't get it to print pages. Not sure if it is me or the application.

Hey Steve-- I've had some problems printing also. When you hit the print key, try to only print the pages that pull up in the scroll box. Sometimes you have to wait a long time.

 

[Sc25175]

Re: Chieftain 1972 MK4

Re: Chieftain 1972 MK4

So progress has been slow but some forward momentum.

Pulled the motor and have it on a stand.

Motor looks pretty clean and turns over nicely. I don't like the rust I see on the block but will deal with that this summer when I start working on the motor.

My next task is to remove the transom plates and from what I have read it looks fairly straight forward.

Rookie question? Where does one get leaded gas these days????

 

[dozerII]

Re: Chieftain 1972 MK4

Re: Chieftain 1972 MK4

Hey Steve, I would be pulling that manifold off before I did anything else. The looks of the rust on the block is not good, it could be a bad gasket but the likley cause is a cracked block. The rust is right in the area that always cracks on the 165 and 120/140, hope not for your sake.
Don't worry about unleaded, you won't find it any where, there are some additives but if you have the head done just have them put in up to date seats and guides.

 

[jasoutside]

Re: Chieftain 1972 MK4

Re: Chieftain 1972 MK4

Yah, I'm with Glen there. Rust in that spot is kinda bad news:blue:

 

[odyssey350kc]

Re: Chieftain 1972 MK4

Re: Chieftain 1972 MK4

Just skimmed through your thread, looks like this is gonna be one nice boat when your done, hopefully the motor will be ok, and on a good note you wrote a while back its probably harder to put it back together, but so far in my experience putting mine back together has been quite easy, it takes a lot to get old rusty corroded parts out, but nice clean new stuff should just slide right in and rivets take much less time to install than they do to drill out.

 

[spegtoast]

Re: Chieftain 1972 MK4

Re: Chieftain 1972 MK4

So progress has been slow but some forward momentum.

Pulled the motor and have it on a stand.View attachment 179435View attachment 179436

Hey Steve,

Nice to see your progress. How long did you have taking out the motor? Any hitches you ran into?

Speg

 

[Sc25175]

Re: Chieftain 1972 MK4

Re: Chieftain 1972 MK4

The motor was fairly easy. Read the manual and really all that is needed is dis-connect some stuff and then 3 nuts and lift out.

I was worried that the back transom aluminum infrastructure would get in the way but that was not the case. One little hitch, the chain that I had rigged to the motor slipped(my fault) while it was about 8 feet in the air hovering over the bed of my pickup which we were lowering it in to. The chain caught just as the motor touched the bed. no damage to anything but needless to say everyone involved had to go and change their pants. The truck is two months old so the boat gods were on my side.

I will check the motor and if it is a cracked block what is the recommendation for replacement?

I know this has been stated before but without this forum I would not even try and attempt this project. The access to this wealth of knowledge is amazing. Thanks for all the help!

 

[jasoutside]

Re: Chieftain 1972 MK4

Re: Chieftain 1972 MK4

I will check the motor and if it is a cracked block what is the recommendation for replacement?

Well, with the big 24 footer you have there I'd be thinking a nice late model 4.3 V6 rated at the 220 hp range or the big 5.7 V8 that would be coughed up from a rotted out glasser:eagerness:

(Heads up, you will have to fabricate stringers to support your new V drive engine though. If that makes you nervous an inline 6 would be your go to engine.)

 

[Stevens520]

Re: Chieftain 1972 MK4

Re: Chieftain 1972 MK4

The stringers that that motor mounts attach to in the v8's are pretty large if you decide to go that route. It the big box under the alternator in the pic.

Have a V8 in mine, but was thinking of swapping it out for something a bit newer.

 

[Sc25175]

Re: Chieftain 1972 MK4

Re: Chieftain 1972 MK4

Removed the inner and outer transom/gimbal plates today. Went pretty well but one question? The steering cable, the manual says remove it but not how???? Do I have to remove the outer casing or does the inner shaft just pull out???

went back and looked at the motor and I do think the block is cracked. my preference would be to stay with a 165 so it looks like I am going to have to start honing my JAS like bottom feeder skills. The gimbal housing is also missing a chunk so I will want to replace that. Accepting any and all advice on how to find serviceable parts cheap.

The good news is it looks like the transom is going to pull out nice and easy. Once I have that accomplished will post some pictures.

My goal with this boat is to make it a very reliable cruiser that I can pull around the country once I am retired and travel some of the great waterways this country has. Everything I will be doing will be with an eye toward ultimate reliability.

 

[Stevens520]

Re: Chieftain 1972 MK4

Re: Chieftain 1972 MK4

Donor found!
1968 Silverline 17' with Trailer - $550 (Royal Oak - Up North)

 

[jasoutside]

Re: Chieftain 1972 MK4

Re: Chieftain 1972 MK4

Everything I will be doing will be with an eye toward ultimate reliability.

OK, I've been brewing on what you posted up there last night, and here's kinda what I'm thinking. You have driveline options, lots of em. Some terrible, some good, some expensive, some cheap, some hard to build.

Fist, if $$ is a factor, surely it is, going a donor boat is almost always best. That boat should have all the necessary parts to be transplanted. Piecing everything together separately can easily break the bank. You are headed in this direction so that's cool. There's big yellow light though. A glasser that is all rotted out from neglect and ready for the dump often times has a driveline that has also been neglected. They kinda go hand in hand. So, finding a nasty glasser with a gem driveline is tricky.

It "appears" that you might have a good candidate with that Silverline there. But - "water getting into the lower unit" and "carb probably needs a rebuild" may very well mean that the lower unit is rusted/busted out and the engine is wasted. Tricky man, being a bottom feeder is soooo tricky!

Here's what I keep thinking about your "ultimate reliability" goal. Great goal by the way! You may need to compromise. See, "ultimate" reliability comes at a price. When you are thinking about traveling round the country, retirement, cruising, chillin, not wanting to wrench on an engine but rather just run the boat, here's what I think for your big 25 footer:

4.3L Complete MerCruiser Engine Package - FUEL INJECTION (Alpha)

or better yet, two of these:

3.0L MerCruiser Complete Engine Package - FUEL INJECTION - 135 h

But the $$$$ is insane (at least as far as my kinda budget is concerned). So what to do? What's the compromise? Well, you may need to ratchet back on the "ultimate" part of the reliability and simply go with "reliable".

Now the I6 165 is awesome and reliable but it's old, no matter how you shake it. So, she'll have old engine type issues, stuff that wears out, rebuild, yada, yada. And, while parts are still very much available, as time goes on, they will become a bit more difficult to find. Even if you find a donor boat with a "cherry, hardly been run" I6, the problem might be that it hasn't been run. Engines don't like just sitting ya know. So, if I were in your shoes, I'd probably steer away from the I6.

Now, the 3.0 is an awesome engine, and those are in donor boats around every corner, easy to find, parts o plenty, the whole bit. Again, the trick would be to find a good one in a nasty boat. And, unfortunately, your boat would feel underpowered. (Unless of course you installed twins which would be darn cool!)

A later model 4.3 V6 would be a great match I think. You know, something about like:

Mercruiser 4 3L Engine Complete Turn Key Tested 4 3 Freshwater Motor Alpha Gen 2 | eBay

If you can find and afford the later Vortec version, even better. This one's on fire:flame:

4.3L, 4 bbl, Alpha 4V - Complete MerCruiser Engine Package

But! Of course you have a bunch more fabrication to complete in order to install that V Drive ya know.

So, you certainly have some challenges and important decisions to make. It's hard to figure where to compromise, $$ or equipment, eh.

Here's the good news, you are starting with a Mercruiser keyhole cutout in your transom vs. a gigantic circle so you are way ahead of where I had to start!!

Ugh, am I glad that's over:facepalm:

 

[spegtoast]

Re: Chieftain 1972 MK4

Re: Chieftain 1972 MK4

The good news is it looks like the transom is going to pull out nice and easy. Once I have that accomplished will post some pictures.

Good news is right.. what did you see that gives such a vote of confidence?

 

[Bondo]

Re: Chieftain 1972 MK4

Re: Chieftain 1972 MK4

The beast is now in my shop. I plan on soda blasting the entire hull and most likely roller painting with rustoleum with hardener. First order of business will be to gut the interior including removing the engine. Once I have removed all that weight I will remove the boat from the trailer.

My thought is to build a mobile cradle that would allow me to move the boat around the shop and also incorporate in the cradle the ability to lay the boat over onto each chine to be able to paint the bottom. Has anybody ever heard of this or done this?

Hi Steve,.... Jas asked me to stop by,... I did a 221 Islander years ago, went from a 2.5l/ MC-1, to a 4.3l/ Alpha 1...
I'll gladly share my trials, tribulations, 'n Screw-ups...

I'll get to that, after I crawl through the rest of yer thread,...
I stopped at this post, just to warn ya,...

Soda blastin' the whole hull is a Waste of time, effort, 'n a Pile of cash,.... Don't do it,...

Most of the original paint appears to be reasonably sound,... Leave it there, it's already stuck to the aluminum...
Just sand it Smooth, spot etch prime the bare metal, prime the whole hull, then Paint it...
If ya blast it to bare metal, the Work, 'n materials $ky-rocket$, due to the nature of aluminum...

If ya Don't remove the original paint, ya don't need etchin' compounds...

View attachment 176346View attachment 176347View attachment 176348

Instead of the pryin', bendin', 'n poundin' discussed here,...
What I did is,....

After removin' the 2 aft cleats, I scribed a line, 1" aft of the drop-down gunnel, on the flat part of the panel to leave a lip for rivetin' things back together later...
Then I simply cut out the part of the panel that's in the way of yer workin',...

That'll give ya 6/ 8"s or so to pull the transom wood, 'n drop in the new piece...
After it was all said, 'n done, I cut a replacement panel outa .080" aluminum, 'n pop-riveted it into place, 'n bolted the cleats back on, with backer boards of plywood of course...

 

[Bondo]

Re: Chieftain 1972 MK4

Re: Chieftain 1972 MK4

Removed the inner and outer transom/gimbal plates today. Went pretty well but one question? The steering cable, the manual says remove it but not how???? Do I have to remove the outer casing or does the inner shaft just pull out???

went back and looked at the motor and I do think the block is cracked. my preference would be to stay with a 165 so it looks like I am going to have to start honing my JAS like bottom feeder skills. The gimbal housing is also missing a chunk so I will want to replace that. Accepting any and all advice on how to find serviceable parts cheap.

The good news is it looks like the transom is going to pull out nice and easy. Once I have that accomplished will post some pictures.

My goal with this boat is to make it a very reliable cruiser that I can pull around the country once I am retired and travel some of the great waterways this country has. Everything I will be doing will be with an eye toward ultimate reliability.

Ayuh,.... On the steerin' cable, loosen the Big nut, at the end of the cable housing, 'n pull the pin outa the tiller arm, then the cable should just slide outa the aluminum tube, that stays on the transom plate....

The cracked block is a problem,... even though the I6, 250 Chevies are a dime a dozen in pickups, they ain't All the same...
They've been in production for Years, 'n changes have happened,...
I don't know 'em All, but a few are,...
The forward starboard iron hicky on the block, for the motor mount, Ain't there on many pickup motors, but some Are,...
Long time poster, Fishermark, usually found in the Mercruiser forum has built a work-around for that issue...
Matter of fact, Mark is a Great resource for those motors... Ziggy is also well versed in 'em,...

Another issue you'll run into is, Many of those motors used an integrated single casting head/ manifold,...
No good for a boat motor...

'n 1 last thing on these motors,... Don't worry 'bout Leaded gasoline,...
You'll never, Ever put enough hours on it to cause the valves to sink into the heads,...
Really, it's a Non-issue...
Or, you could find a truck head from '73 or newer that has hardened seats...

With the looks of yer motor, 'n transom assembly,... I agree with Jas,...
Find a newer, Rotten hull, with a runnin' 4.3l/ Alpha 1, 'n drop it into yer hull...
My favorite Alpha transom assembly is the 1st ones, 'bout '83/ '84,...
They have the most grease zerts...
Older than that, is the MC-1 like yers, the "R"s, 'n the "MR"s, which All will work...
Or, post '91, is the Alpha, Gen.IIs, which will also work, with drillin' 2 more holes in the transom, which puts ya into Current production parts...
The draw-back there is,...
Merc drives from the MC-1, to the Alpha 1, will All interchange amongst themselves, the Gen.IIs are a breed of their own...

If ya decide to go from the I-motor, to a V-motor, new motor mounts are pretty easy to build, 'n pop-rivet into place,...
I did mine outa that same .080 aluminum sheet I mentioned before...

Good luck,... I'll try to stop by now, 'n then, but if ya got a question, feel free to pm me, 'n I'll make it a point to stop in....

Toodles,... Bondo....

 

[Bondo]

Re: Chieftain 1972 MK4

Re: Chieftain 1972 MK4

Btw,.... I just figured out, this thread is down in the alphabet soup forums, 'n Not in the restoration forum,...

Sorry, I guess that don't say much for my Moddin' skills, does it,..??... :facepalm:

 

[jasoutside]

Re: Chieftain 1972 MK4

Re: Chieftain 1972 MK4

Bondo, your male modeling skills are the best in the biz!

You can't be #1 at everything man!

:third:

 

[Bondo]

Re: Chieftain 1972 MK4

Re: Chieftain 1972 MK4

Bondo, your male modeling skills are the best in the biz!

You can't be #1 at everything man!

:third:

Ayuh,.... Thanks Jas,... I just spit my lunch, All over my 'puter screen....

 

[Sc25175]

Re: Chieftain 1972 MK4

Re: Chieftain 1972 MK4

Jas/Bondo

Thanks for the advice.

1. The steering rod did slide out but it was so gummed up I had to drive it out with hammer and punch. All is good
2. Soda Blasting, another good idea. Sanding seems much easier and if I can blend in the bad spots so it looks decent I will definitely go that way.

3. Clearly the motor and drivetrain is going to be issue that will require a lot of thought. I went out and looked at rebuilt motor/transom-gimbal assembly/outdrive and come up with between $6&8K. Really can't justify doing that for a boat that is 30 plus years old. I have awhile to figure this out since I am still in demo mode and will need to build the transom and reinstall prior to mechanical work.

Is there place to go and read up on all the different model number/nomenclature stuff? When we start talking Alpha vs Bravo, Gen I vs Gen II I get confused on what will work with what???

Thanks again for the help this project probably wouldn't happen without a resource like to draw upon.