Starter clicks but won't turn

[essdee]

Hi All,

Re-commissioning an engine which has been in storage for some years. Crankshaft is rotating and pistons are moving quite normally by rotating the flywheel.

On attempt to start, the solenoid engages (or at least I can hear some relay clicking) but no further movement. After repeated attempts the cables are quite warm and I am thinking:

- wiring is OK
- unit is drawing solid amps

... so why won't it turn the engine?

I have zero experience with starters... are they known to jam if left in storage? If starters do not jam, then any ideas what else could be wrong?

Thanks!
Sam


Engine: 1997 Evinrude 90 HP

* This motor does not appear to have a rope-start option else I would have already tried that. It's got an optical ignition system, so the top of the flywheel is encased in a plastic covering which has a sensor or two inside it.

 

[customvs]

Re: Starter clicks but won't turn

take the battery power past the solenoid and straight to the starter,this will show if the starter is working,use a jumper lead or equivaliant heavy wire,if that kicks,you know the starter is fine.my guess is solenoid.

 

[essdee]

Re: Starter clicks but won't turn

take the battery power past the solenoid and straight to the starter,this will show if the starter is working,use a jumper lead or equivaliant heavy wire,if that kicks,you know the starter is fine.my guess is solenoid.

Hey, thanks for the quick reply. I wanted to power the starter motor directly as you suggest, but the design I am working with does not allow this.

There are two terminals at the base of the starter unit where power enters the ENTIRE engine. The starter itself is energised by two smaller terminals (which I think are for the relay). Everything else is enclosed within the starter unit body.

In other words, there are no other terminals visible where I may bypass the solenoid and directly power the armature.

The only way to do so is to remove the entire assembly - which unfortunately may also mean removing the elaborate system sitting atop the flywheel...

I am prepared to do this as the next logical step... I just wanted to be sure it needs to be done : )

 

[essdee]

Re: Starter clicks but won't turn

take the battery power past the solenoid and straight to the starter,this will show if the starter is working,use a jumper lead or equivaliant heavy wire,if that kicks,you know the starter is fine.my guess is solenoid.

Also... just a thought: If the solenoid was fried, would the system still be drawing enough amps to heat up the wires???

Spoke to Dad too, he's been messing around with auto engines for decades. He feels the starter motor itself has gummed up... or the carbon brushes have seized due to non-use... This would explain why I can hear the relay/solenoid clicking and why the wires get warm... the system is pulling amps but the armature can't turn.

Anyways, let's see what the outboard experts have to say : )

 

[JB]

Re: Starter clicks but won't turn

Wiring is not okay. Take both battery cables off, both ends, and scrub the connections shiny. Check the cables for weak or swollen spots, then reconnect.

The starter is not turning because there is not enough current. There is not enough current because there is some resistance in the wiring. The wires are getting hot because there is enough current to heat them up.

This is by a looong shot the most common cause of your symptoms. It costs nothing and should be a part of routine, annual maintenance.

Bad starter or bad solenoid are also possible, but the wiring must be clean and free of resistance and the battery fully charged for either to work properly.

Good luck.

 

[essdee]

Re: Starter clicks but won't turn

Wiring is not okay. Take both battery cables off, both ends, and scrub the connections shiny. Check the cables for weak or swollen spots, then reconnect.

The starter is not turning because there is not enough current. There is not enough current because there is some resistance in the wiring. The wires are getting hot because there is enough current to heat them up.

This is by a looong shot the most common cause of your symptoms. It costs nothing and should be a part of routine, annual maintenance.

Bad starter or bad solenoid are also possible, but the wiring must be clean and free of resistance and the battery fully charged for either to work properly.

Good luck.

Hi JB,

Thanks for the added perspective. Here's what I previously did as part of the re-commissioning tasklist:

- electrical contact cleaner squirted inside all connectors
- Ohm meter used to confirm cable and wiring integrity
- Battery lugs stripped, cleaned and re-assembled
- All terminals in sight (cable ends and on motor) thoroughly cleaned, degreased etc.

Battery-wise, I troubleshooted by using another battery - straight off a friend's boat where it was happily cranking a much larger engine.

The cause may well be wiring related, but if this is so then I suspect the problem is the wiring inside the starter assembly.

Anyways, every bit of input helps, and I'll re-check all cables just to be sure : )

 

[durban]

Re: Starter clicks but won't turn

the clicking you hear tells me the coil magnetizes thus pulling the copper strip in side the solenoid up , what does happen the copper strip inside carbons up & does not send the current through to the brushes , being the positive making contact with the armature to turn . the other thing could be brushes cooked or carboned up ,i drill the reverts out the solenoid clean or turn the copper strip over & assemble & rivet with aluminum pop rivets , job done

 

[JB]

Re: Starter clicks but won't turn

An Ohmmeter is useless for testing the starter current circuit. It only takes a few milliohms to cause your symptoms. An Ohmmeter can't measure that.

Did you take the cable connections off and scrub them? This is the only way to correct hidden corrosion.

This will explain how to troubleshoot the high current circuit. http://forums.iboats.com/showthread.php?t=158071

 

[62 ROYAL SCOTT]

Re: Starter clicks but won't turn

hell-o maybe try tapping it with a hammer while you try to start it it worked for me once GOOD LUCK :redface:

 

[Haffiman]

Re: Starter clicks but won't turn

From the solenoid it is a thick red wire going to the starter. remove the red battery cable from its terminal, or use a solid jumper and 'touch' the output from the solenoid to starter.

 

[kenmyfam]

Re: Starter clicks but won't turn

By pass the starter cables with booster cables and see if she spins.

 

[essdee]

Re: Starter clicks but won't turn

So I took some pics to help any future posters with the same problem.

The first one (#726) shows why it is impossible to hot-wire the starter directly (for this particular model). Power from the battery enters the engine at a single point and there are no other visible terminals for the starter motor.

The second one (#728) shows a fuller view of the entire assy, depicting the dome on top of the flywheel which contains the sensors for the optical ignition system. Note how there is no provision for a rope-start... which means you're going to be rowing home if the starter fails at sea.

I am removing the starter today... will keep you all posted. Thank you for the input!

 

[Haffiman]

Re: Starter clicks but won't turn

To me it looks like you have the battery ground going to the starter B+ (from solenoid)????
It might as it goes through the brushes work as a sort of ground, but with an incredible resistance, and perhaps enough to activate solenoid and primer solenoid.
On the solenoid, opposite where B+ from battery enters, is should be a big 'red' going up to where your battery ground is attached and the battery ground should be moved to a designated ground screw at the engine block.

 

[essdee]

Update #1

Update #1

OK. Starter removed. Shaft rotates quite easily.

I think we can toss out any jammed scenarios.

Electrical trouble-shooting now... will keep you posted.

 

[essdee]

Re: Starter clicks but won't turn

To me it looks like you have the battery ground going to the starter B+ (from solenoid)????
It might as it goes through the brushes work as a sort of ground, but with an incredible resistance, and perhaps enough to activate solenoid and primer solenoid.
On the solenoid, opposite where B+ from battery enters, is should be a big 'red' going up to where your battery ground is attached and the battery ground should be moved to a designated ground screw at the engine block.

Interesting observation... I was thinking about that myself. But, bear in mind the engine was running fine with this wiring set-up prior to storage. I'm not saying this wiring is optimum, but that's how it's been since the motor was purchased (used).

I'll continue trouble-shooting without changing this for the moment... but do you think I should move the B- cable (-ive from battery) to the unused terminal later?

 

[Haffiman]

Re: Starter clicks but won't turn

NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
You should move the B- from battery to the grounding screw on right side on the pic where the other ground cables are attached.
I have difficulties in believing the set-up has worked for years as shown on pic. What would have happened would be that providing the solenoid got enough 'ground' through the starter brushes and anchor windings to energize, as soon as it made contact you would have a direct short of the battery through the solenoid!!!!
You may if unlucky have burned out both solenoid and starter.

 

[essdee]

Re: Starter clicks but won't turn

NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
You should move the B- from battery to the grounding screw on right side on the pic where the other ground cables are attached.
I have difficulties in believing the set-up has worked for years as shown on pic. What would have happened would be that providing the solenoid got enough 'ground' through the starter brushes and anchor windings to energize, as soon as it made contact you would have a direct short of the battery through the solenoid!!!!
You may if unlucky have burned out both solenoid and starter.

: ) I'm positive the wiring set-up has not been changed since when the engine was last run.

To make life a little easier, I've tagged all 6 terminals in this pic:



A: unused terminal on starter relay
B: +ive cable from battery

C: from ignition switch
D: from ignition switch

E: -ive cable from battery (ground on starter and engine body)
F: another ground terminal (some wires from the harness use this for the -ive return)

G: metal strip (professionally machined, so probably OEM) connecting A and E


Now that we can reference terminals directly, could you please repeat your earlier suggestion : )

Thanks!

 

[essdee]

Starter Wiring Diagram

Starter Wiring Diagram

So I found this while moving through the OEM prescribed trouble-shooting steps.



It's pretty much identical to the existing wiring set-up... it even has the metal strip (tagged 'G' in the my pic) which connects A and E.



The only difference I can discern is that the - ive cable from the battery is connected to E in my set-up... and F in the OEM set-up. Since this is part of the same ground, I don't believe this should make a difference.

Anyway, the quest continues : )

 

[Haffiman]

Re: Starter clicks but won't turn

B= B+ from battery (As well as other B+ from regulator and engine electrical system)
F= Battery Ground (B-) as well as other ground cables from electrical system including black from either C or .
C and D= One has a yellow/red from harness, the other a black going to F. Which on which does not matter.
A,G and E= leave as is with metal strip. (The metal strip replaces the Red one I mentioned earlier from solenoid to starter.

You may 'test' starter before putting it back by attaching the B+ at E or A and just touch B- to F. This will by-pass the relay.
You may test starter and relay together by:
Attach B+ to B, Attach B- (ground) to F. Then make a small jumper between D and F. Make another jumper, attach one end to B - then slightly touch C. The relay should click and starter run.

 

[Haffiman]

Re: Starter Wiring Diagram

Re: Starter Wiring Diagram

So I found this while moving through the OEM prescribed trouble-shooting steps.

View attachment 135403

It's pretty much identical to the existing wiring set-up... it even has the metal strip (tagged 'G' in the my pic) which connects A and E.

View attachment 135404

The only difference I can discern is that the - ive cable from the battery is connected to E in my set-up... and F in the OEM set-up. Since this is part of the same ground, I don't believe this should make a difference.

Anyway, the quest continues : )

HUGE difference!! E is not a ground connection, but the starter brushes intended for B+.