Starter Gear Spins - Will Not Engage

[Ruler2112]

I have a 25 horse Evinrude on my 14' aluminum fishing boat, model number E25TECOS. The last trip out last fall, the engine started fine and my father and I went out on Saginaw Bay to fish perch. We were anchored, but it was quite windy and we drifted out of the school. I went to start the engine up to move us back on the school and only got a whirring sound from the engine. My dad, 72, immediately freaked and wanted me to see if I could start the engine manually so we could leave, even though we'd just started fishing. Since the rip cord was in the front of the boat, it was a very nice day despite the wind, and we were intermittently catching fish as we drifted, we just kept fishing until we ran out of bait - about 2 hours during which time my dad suggested I start the motor every 8-10 minutes.

We got back to the dock and I tried starting the engine a few times with the electric start. The first time it kicked in, but every other time it failed. I'd tried it probably 40 times while we were out fishing and it never engaged. The starter gear spins, but does not move up to engage the flywheel. You can hear a definite click whenever you hit the start button, which I'm guessing is coming from whatever is intended to move that gear up.

Remembering how great everybody at this forum was in assisting me in repairing my last engine breakdown, I came here for information and found information on what sounds like my exact problem. However, cleaning all the electrical connections didn't work, nor did lubing the shaft that the starter gear is on.

To test for bad electrical connections, I took 2 multimeters (yeah, I'm geeky enough to have multiple multimeters around), hooked one up to the battery and one up to the post at the starter. Both read the same voltage and stayed that way when I hit the start button. (The battery is slightly discharged after sitting all winter, but it was doing the same thing last fall with 13v coming from the starting battery.) After this, I removed the nuts from the connections and while they look dirty on the outside, they look fine (shiny) where it matters.

I'm at a loss of what to do next. Any ideas?



Here's the general area:

Close-up of the starter:

Close-up of where I *think* the click is coming from - can't tell 100% though:

 

[wifisher]

Re: Starter Gear Spins - Will Not Engage

The click you are hearing is the solenoid supplying power to the starter. Put some light oil on the pinion shaft that the starter gear slides up and down on. There is no bendix to engage the gear like there is on automotive motors, it engages because of the spinning. The engine will disengage it when it starts by spinning it too fast.

 

[Ruler2112]

Re: Starter Gear Spins - Will Not Engage

Tried that last fall before the engine came downstairs - no difference. I did notice that the small brass-colored gear will not move up and down by hand, whether by turning it or just pulling up on the little I can grab - is this normal or indicate what the problem is?

 

[wifisher]

Re: Starter Gear Spins - Will Not Engage

you should be able to slide it up by hand. You may have to pull the starter off and take the gear off of it to get it freed up.

 

[Ruler2112]

Re: Starter Gear Spins - Will Not Engage

OK, suppose for a minute that one does not know how the starter comes off and none of the bolts/nuts removed thus far have managed to loosen it at all. How would one get the starter taken off of the engine and then remove said gear? :redface:


I found the diagram of my engine on a parts catalog online, but don't even see the starter in any of their diagrams.

 

[dew2]

Re: Starter Gear Spins - Will Not Engage

Try 2 screw drivers under it and gently pry up.Once its free, clean and use some light weight oil on it.Then remember to keep it oiled when storing over winter

 

[samo_ott]

Re: Starter Gear Spins - Will Not Engage

The starter comes off usually with the triangular bracket. There's 3 nuts or so. It's not hard at all.

 

[Ruler2112]

Re: Starter Gear Spins - Will Not Engage

OK, I'm now in front of the engine and am again trying to remove the starter. I still am unable to see anything that is keeping the starter on. The manual for the engine has the following information in it regarding this:

1.  Disconnect the negative battery cable.
2.  Remove the engine cover.
3.  Disconnect all leads at the solenoid.
4.  Remove the vertical throttle shaft clamp screws.  Remove the clamp.
5.  Remove the air silencer assembly.
6.  Remove the starter bracket front fastener.
7.  Remove the upper and lower capscrews holding the starter bracket to the power head.  Note that the lower capscrew is installed from the rear of the power head and has the starter ground lead attached.
8.  Remove the starter motor with mounting bracket and solenoid attached.
etc.

I have steps 1, 2, 3, 4, and 6 done, but have no clue what the 'air silencer assembly' is, nor do I see any capscrews.

 

[Silvertip]

Re: Starter Gear Spins - Will Not Engage

DO NOT PRY on anything. The starter gear works in a spiral groove in the starter motor shaft so you can't simply pull it up. You rotate the gear opposite the direction of starter rotation and it will ride up the shaft. It is the inertia of the starter that spins the gear up the shaft. If the gear will not rise by turning in EITHER direction, then it is indeed stuck on the shaft. By the way, the one tooth (the shiny one) looks like it is ground nearly flat. All teeth should look like the one on the right (the one with the taper on it.). You don't need to pull the starter at this point. You know it works. What you need to do is loosen the gear and that requires PB Blaster or some other penetrating oil to loosen it. If the gear is loose, does rise when turned manually, but not when the starter is running, then you have a weak starter (highly unlikely), bad battery cable connections (more likely) or a weak battery (highly likely). Just because you think the battery has a full charge does not mean it can deliver the current the starter needs.

 

[Silvertip]

Re: Starter Gear Spins - Will Not Engage

Sit in the boat facing the engine. Remove the engine cover. See the black plastic box like thing that is facing you. That's the air silencer -- it covers the carburetor(s).

 

[superharmonix]

Re: Starter Gear Spins - Will Not Engage

I have an 85hp Johnson, and had the opposite problem. My starter gear would engage and not let off. It started fine at home of course, but once on the lake, it stuck. All I had to do was oil it up underneath the gear where the spring is and Voolah! Worked like a charm. Thankfully I figured it out before the teeth all ground off. Hopefully that's all you need to do!

 

[Ruler2112]

Re: Starter Gear Spins - Will Not Engage

AAAAAAaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh...................... you rotate the gear ON THE SHAFT to make it rise up. I was roatating the entire shaft.

How high is the starter gear supposed to rise in relation to the flywheel? When getting it to rise up, the teeth barely engage the flywheel - most likely why some of the teeth are shiny; it's just the coating that's worn off though. There's only one that has a divot out of it, and it's not terrible.

I'm putting everything back that I've taken apart so far. I'll charge up a couple batteries and try a couple different ones. Other than checking voltage with multimeters, how would I check the power getting to the starter?

Is there a way to safely bypass the power cables going from the engine to the battery? I was thinking of jumper cables from the battery to the red terminal at the bottom of the starter and the bolt with the black wire between the starter & solenoid. This would eliminate the power cable from the equation. (It's had a split in the outer covering since I bought the boat, but the inner shielding looks fine from what I can see.)

-Posted from a laptop with grease on the keyboard...

 

[Ruler2112]

Re: Starter Gear Spins - Will Not Engage

LOL - I don't even have an air silencer! The engine cover comes off and I can look directly into the carb and even see the throttle plate. Maybe this is why the engine seems abnormally loud?

 

[Ruler2112]

Re: Starter Gear Spins - Will Not Engage

Nevermind my question about how far the starter gear is supposed to rise - figured out how to make it go all the way up manually.

 

[Ruler2112]

Re: Starter Gear Spins - Will Not Engage

OK, everything is hooked back up and I finally figured out where that last bolt was supposed to go. Going to try a freshly charged battery, then a different one if that doesn't work. Curious about how to bypass the engine wires, but do not want to destroy something by incorrectly connecting jumper cables, so will wait for somebody with more knowledge about it.

For those interested and who may find this thread in the future, I got the gear to go up all the way by holding the gear and then rotating the shaft. This way, it fit between the teeth of the flywheel and I didn't need to try to rotate both simultaneously.

 

[Ruler2112]

Re: Starter Gear Spins - Will Not Engage

This problem has been fixed.

After all that, I took my battery to work and they tested it. Out of 800 CCA the battery is rated for, it tested as having 385. This was after a fresh charge.

OK, so I need another battery. That's fine - I have the dual-purpose marine battery that I bought new, used for 5-6 months, then stored. I bought it to use on my trolling motor, but the trolling motor died right after buying it; I've charged it every 3-4 months to keep it in good condition. Put it on the charger, charged it overnight, and tried it. The motor wouldn't even turn over. Testing it with my multimeter, I got a reading of 8.6 volts. Great - $70 for a battery I used maybe 2 dozen times.

I do have two other batteries, both regular that I got used for the trolling motor, treated the same way as the marine battery. Only problem is that it doesn't have any screw-connectors on, only posts. Charged one of them up, had a friend hold the leads from the motor to the correct posts. Hit the button and bingo - worked perfectly!

Stopped by the store the other night and bought a pair of adapters that will convert the battery from post to a screw-type connector. Went through all that and ended up fixing the problem for a $6 adapters...

Thank you everybody who responded. You guys are awesome here. (Makes me want to go dig out the old dead trolling motor and try to fix that... )

 

[northvillejam]

Re: Starter Gear Spins - Will Not Engage

I had same problem. Boys had to paddle back to shore 1/2 mile. The gear was stuck on the shaft (Step #9 fixed it). Little PB blaster and very little pressure it freed up. Thanks for posting this.