starter quits after 2-3 seconds....

[1946Zephyr]

Re: starter quits after 2-3 seconds....

I would spray the heck out of the shaft and bendix gear with WD-40 to clean it all out good, then put some light oil on it afterwards. It might be how little the gear is engaging, the flywheel, that's causing it to come loose from it.

 

[bob johnson]

Re: starter quits after 2-3 seconds....

ok went out early this morning and gave it a test... I am sorry , I may have misled everyone slightly.... the kick out and quiting of the starter is only happeneing right when the motor wants to start!!! maybe just like petry is saying....it senses the motor picking up speed and dissengages ,

the starter cranked fine this morning, until the fuel finally was getting to where it needed to be and then the starter did its kick out thing...


it is obvious i have a tune up issue, or its the slow starter problem that manifested itself last winter.

I have taken the boat out three times since i rebuilt the carbs, and once it started it ran like a house of fire....smoooth, the temp in one head had settle back to a good range( previously it had been slightly hotter than the other side)...the motor sounded perfect and ran prefect... then the last trip out it was hard to start and did its starter issue kick out...


now it has done it off and on for two years but seldom was it ever a show stopper...id just try it a few more times and boom the motor would start...

this morning i could crank the starter for a minute straight if i wanted to!!! then just when it sounded like the motor was firing slightly the kick out-starter dissengage starts.

where should i look first?? a slow start rpm? a weak spark?( maybe both if a slow rpm starter) it sounds fast enough, but you never know whats its really turning.

I have saturday set aside to troubleshoot..... I also have two parts motors , one completely dissasembled to use other parts from...

thanks

and sorry again for forgetting the exact sequence of my problems


bob

 

[Will Bark]

Re: starter quits after 2-3 seconds....

OK, that's what my 150 does sometime and what I found generally causes it is that I didn't get the primer as tight as it go or I don't hold key switch in long enough before I hit start. Mine will try to catch and the starter releases before it starts. The above is what corrects mine. Hope it works for you.

 

[bob johnson]

Re: starter quits after 2-3 seconds....

I called my marine mechanic today....he will usually talk me through some stuff...because he always seems to NOT want to work on anything!! plus he has very little room so he doesnt want a boat sitting inside.

well i told him whats happening and he says oil up the bendix shaft real good.....

now i dont know what the issue really is, and lots of problems sound like other problems...so i got a few things lined up to do saturday....wondering, if others can add anything else before saturday.

I wish there was a way to test the rpm of a starter.....i took my extra one to a starter-generator place last year, to test BEFORE i would replace the one I have now... the guy just plugged it in, and turned it over and told me , yeah it works.....but thats not what i wanted...i wanted to know that it would turn fast ENOUGH..... so i got no where.

man and i was so happy after I rebuilt the carbs on how well the motor was running....now is the time I really need the boat and i have issues...

so going to fully charge both batteries by saturday

going to lube up the bendix shaft,
clean all connections

check spark jump all over again.....

anything else guys?

bob

 

[mekkamaz]

Re: starter quits after 2-3 seconds....

Is the motor starting now and then even with a little turns or you have to crank a lot? It should start easy if it?s ok, even on a rope...My 235 VRO when fine, starts even on a rope, not a pleasure job to do if you ask me, but once happened battery ran out of juice (stereo on,all time), then I rope-start it...If not, maybe you should check the flywheel key if it?s not broke....

 

[Fed]

Re: starter quits after 2-3 seconds....

I'd be onboard with the Petry post and a bendix lube but I can't get past the starter being stationary while the key is in the start position.

I have to ask again, are you 100% sure of this, please don't shout at me.

Flywheel gives the pinion a kick & spins the starter way faster than it ever usually goes, we've all heard that noise.

 

[bob johnson]

Re: starter quits after 2-3 seconds....

Is the motor starting now and then even with a little turns or you have to crank a lot? It should start easy if it?s ok, even on a rope...My 235 VRO when fine, starts even on a rope, not a pleasure job to do if you ask me, but once happened battery ran out of juice (stereo on,all time), then I rope-start it...If not, maybe you should check the flywheel key if it?s not broke....

didnt start this morning...but in the past, if it was going to start, it would if that starter stayed in a second or two longer.....generally once the fuel starts to flow and it is choked good, the motor will fire....of course since the carb rebuild and replacement fuel pump....I have only limited use...

this mornign I could get the motor to try and fire as often as i did last time...so she cranked and cranked...the few times it sounded like it fired the starter kicked out....

so i do have a slight tune up issue other than the starter issue..

gonna go over all the basics this saturday and lube up the bendix.. this starter hasnt been touched in the three years i have had the motor....so it isnt like it needs to be shimed or anything...

I think I may just replace the starter with my other starter, just in case it was not turning FAST ENOUGH.....


bob

 

[mekkamaz]

Re: starter quits after 2-3 seconds....

Ok, My 1980 115, have a little trouble with the starter motor, it has bad bushings so it was dragging....but engine starts after a couple of tries, even at low speed.....not very recommended cause you can burn it...that?s why I was thinking about a timing issue on yours with the flywheel key...sounds like it will fire if you keep cranking, but it will not......just a thought anyway...

 

[bob johnson]

Re: starter quits after 2-3 seconds....

well was going to start pulling the cowl, but figured id try to start it first anyway.and it sounded like it wanted to start. It really seemed like when it tried to fire is when it would kick the bendix back down...

I did discover that when the bendix is kicked back down that if i do hold the key in the start position the starter motor does continue to spin.... I thought that it wasnt doing that before..mainly because I never held the key on after the bendix kicked out..so thats anothe tid bit of info I was wrong about.

well i got the motor started...it runs great idless great...and after it ran it started instantly every time.....so I still have an issue, that Ill address this saturday. I have to take the starter completely out to grease the shaft abd bendix gear.the top of the starter and flywheel are completely enclosed in the cover on thus style motor.

should i still be looking at a poor igintion system? or is it probably the ungreased bendix shaft ?


thanks

bob

 

[1946Zephyr]

Re: starter quits after 2-3 seconds....

Yes, I would make sure the workings are all lubed properly.

 

[Bill3434]

Re: starter quits after 2-3 seconds....

Not to get into a long story about my issues this summer but I learned a few things. 1. Just because you clean every terminal and connection doesn't mean you don't have a corrision problem. I bought new power cables and disectioned the old one; I found every strand of wire was oxidized individually. 2. Starter, mine seemed fine until taken apart. I took mine apart and found worn brushes and every contact was severly oxidized. $50 for custom cables, $16 for new brushes and 20 cents for sandpaper solved my problem. Spent more time thinking it was a bad battery and replacing it, $100; and replacing the solinoid $27 (now have a spare) and three ruined fishing outings.

After all that; my old starter will crank until the battery goes dead and spins fast enough if I could put the engine in gear while starting I could troll. Your engine maybe kicking the starter out because it doesn't have enough torque. Hope my experience saves you or someone else a headache.

 

[bob johnson]

Re: starter quits after 2-3 seconds....

you are right Bill, I have seen that with cars as well as older boats...but my cables are HUGE( also expensive!!) and they are less than 3 years old and are tinned!!!! cables wont be my problems for years...but i do plan to take the start out saturday...seems pretty easy if i were to just grease it...probably dont even have to take all the wires off...

but Ill most likely replace it...

bob

 

[Bill3434]

Re: starter quits after 2-3 seconds....

you are right Bill, I have seen that with cars as well as older boats...but my cables are HUGE( also expensive!!) and they are less than 3 years old and are tinned!!!! cables wont be my problems for years...but i do plan to take the start out saturday...seems pretty easy if i were to just grease it...probably dont even have to take all the wires off...

but Ill most likely replace it...

bob

Bob, you are probably right about your cables; just out of all the advice I got no one thought of that one. I probably could have gotten by without the brushes on the starter if I had just taken it about and cleaned it. The last thing I wanted to do was buy a new starter so I was willing to do anything to fix the problem. So I had to revive some brain cells from my teenage days on how to work on them. Someone even betted me I wouldn't be able to get it back together but I did it on the second attempt.

If there is a lot of old grease on the starter I would get that stuff off it, then try to lube it.

 

[Fed]

Re: starter quits after 2-3 seconds....

I wouldn't touch the wiring or the starter aside from a bit of light oil on the bendix which is normal maintenance anyway.

Maybe a revisit your cold starting procedure, prime, choke, fast idle lever.

 

[bob johnson]

Re: starter quits after 2-3 seconds....

I plled the starter today. I didnt disconnect, and of the wire, i just shut off my battery switch.... I had to undo the lower cowl, and the starter popped out with three bolts removed. Low and behold this starter doesnt have a bendix!! there is a gear on the end of the shaft of the starter...then inside mounted in a pocket cast into the aluminum block they have an idler gear mounted and the bendix gear mounted next to that. I didnt take the top cover of the OIS ignition syatem off, because there are so many compnents of times and the optical eye is mounted there as welll...so i reached up inside the opening for the starter and greased as best i could. I also sprayed some wD40 in there....

I had gotten the motor to start before i did all this, but i wanted to look inside anyway.

once the motor has started....it sstarts right away with no issues afterwards.. motor runs nice... after the grease job and reinstall of the starter i tried and the motor started fine.


will check it cold tomorrow


bob

 

[Bill3434]

Re: starter quits after 2-3 seconds....

WD-40 should clean a lot of gunk off, also thin the grease you applied. But I'm sure you know that. You told me your main power cables were fairly new, how old is the starter?

 

[petryshyn]

Re: starter quits after 2-3 seconds....

I didn't realize you had a looper! I presumed it was a drive/starter assmy. My bad (never assume) .....The inertia drive is a stand alone part on this engine. This drive is common to fail and must be purchased with its accompanying shaft. The bushings that support its shaft may also be worn....

Again, be sure you have spark to all cylinders at cranking speed.......

 

[mekkamaz]

Re: starter quits after 2-3 seconds....

Same here...assuming...sorry if misled...best regards..

 

[bob johnson]

Re: starter quits after 2-3 seconds....

no problem, I appreciate all replys... I put the grease on first!!! then sprayed with wd 40 just in case i didnt reach enough important spots...if i had sprayed the wd 40 first , I know the grease would not have stuck!!!!!..

bob

 

[Home Cookin']

Re: starter quits after 2-3 seconds....

after spraynig with WD40 go back and use a lubricant.

My johnson's start was hanging in the flywheel, not retracting, etc. due to salt water spraying in the cowl when a telltale hose connection failed. it wasn't pretty. Sprayed down the shaft with CRC. Didn't help initially. So I resorted to the age-old starter fixer: a hammer. A few persuasive taps on the starter, off she went just fine and ran the rest of the long weekend. I reapplied CRC a few time.