Starting issue or seized engine???

[hard-3]

Re: Starting issue or seized engine???

well from past experiance blowing stuff up, it usually occurs under load to lock up and it usually makes noise to let you know it broke. to just get hot and not even quit on it's own , I think maybe something may be externally locking it up. Check you tool box, got all your wrenches???
Good Luck
Jeff

 

[4Winns2]

Re: Starting issue or seized engine???

well from past experiance blowing stuff up, it usually occurs under load to lock up and it usually makes noise to let you know it broke. to just get hot and not even quit on it's own , I think maybe something may be externally locking it up. Check you tool box, got all your wrenches???
Good Luck
Jeff

Yepper, I mean she just sputtered when I took her out of the hole (does that sound right, hmm)/"under load" and I backed off the throttle and shut her down immediately. I could have continued idling but turned her off. And, no, I didn't hear internal engine parts clanking/breaking apart. Went back and felt the valve covers and risers. Yeah, they were hot but couldn't fry an egg on em. So no, she didn't quit on her own. I just don't think she was hot long enough to do real damage but can't explain the reason why I can't turn the crankshaft with a breaker bar.

"Externally locking it up?"

Got more wrenches than your average do it yourselfer- -father is a tool & die maker, brother is a mechanic so I'm fitted. I haven't called my brother on this yet. Thanks, maybe I'll get lucky tonight (opposite of getting out of the hole) and she'll turn the crank. If not we'll soak it up some more. Thanks brother. Keep it coming if you have more thoughts- -your expertise is most appreciated.

 

[KJSmitty]

Re: Starting issue or seized engine???

I think Hard-3's comment about wrenches references what we would call an FO issue in my line of work. FO: Foreign Object.

He was ensuring you didn't leave any tools behind when you pulled/installed the drive during initial inspection that would be binding or deterring rotation etc..

Anything is possible.

 

[mkast]

Re: Starting issue or seized engine???

well from past experiance blowing stuff up, it usually occurs under load to lock up and it usually makes noise to let you know it broke. to just get hot and not even quit on it's own , I think maybe something may be externally locking it up. Check you tool box, got all your wrenches???
Good Luck
Jeff

Blowing an engine up is easy, anyone can do it.
Seizing an engine, takes a little more finesse.
If you try rocking the engine, the damper bolt will unloosen.
The starter will apply a little more torque than a breaker bar.
Be patient, let the solvent do the work.
Aero Kroil is sold at a few Ace hardware stores.
If you Google it, you'll find the manufacturer.
It's a little better than PB Blaster.

 

[hard-3]

Re: Starting issue or seized engine???

I once left a shoprag in the camgears of a 238 detroit. talk about not turning over!!!

 

[Bondo]

Re: Starting issue or seized engine???

I've reinstalled the drive after changing the inlet water hose that caused the overheating. What could be binding that would prevent me from turning the engine with a breaker bar?

Ayuh,....

At this point, the Best thing to do is to Pull the Drive,...

Even in Neutral, about 1/2 of the Drive is still Supposed to be turning,...

Until you pull the drive,.. There's No way in 'ell to tell whether your fighting a Motor problem, or the Drive is AFU.....

 

[4Winns2]

Re: Starting issue or seized engine???

I think Hard-3's comment about wrenches references what we would call an FO issue in my line of work. FO: Foreign Object.

He was ensuring you didn't leave any tools behind when you pulled/installed the drive during initial inspection that would be binding or deterring rotation etc..

Anything is possible.

Smitty:

Thanks, wasn't familiar with FO. And, no, nothing I can think of in FO left behind. I'm pretty careful about break down so the put together phase isn't a "where in hell is so and so bolt etc."

 

[4Winns2]

Re: Starting issue or seized engine???

Blowing an engine up is easy, anyone can do it.
Seizing an engine, takes a little more finesse.
If you try rocking the engine, the damper bolt will unloosen.
The starter will apply a little more torque than a breaker bar.
Be patient, let the solvent do the work.
Aero Kroil is sold at a few Ace hardware stores.
If you Google it, you'll find the manufacturer.
It's a little better than PB Blaster.

mkast:

Thanks for the advice. We have an Ace store close by. And, yepper, I've already experienced the loosening of the damper bolt. Will keep trying the starter for more torque.

 

[4Winns2]

Re: Starting issue or seized engine???

Ayuh,....

At this point, the Best thing to do is to Pull the Drive,...

Even in Neutral, about 1/2 of the Drive is still Supposed to be turning,...

Until you pull the drive,.. There's No way in 'ell to tell whether your fighting a Motor problem, or the Drive is AFU.....

Bond-o:

Makes sense! Didn't know I was pushing that much of the drive in neutral. Just don't have an extra pair of hands tonight; not that I'm going anywhere this weekend. Time to pull out the small boat. Thanks.

 

[Bondo]

Re: Starting issue or seized engine???

Just don't have an extra pair of hands tonight;

Ayuh,..... Extra pair of Hands,..??..??

6 or 8 Nuts,+ that 80lbs. of drive is Off,+ in the Garage.......

 

[hard-3]

Re: Starting issue or seized engine???

if it was me, I would check the rotating assembly for binding, pull the drive, and try to bar over. If it is stuck internally ,spraying might loosen it up , but there is no way I would start it after being seized. You could turn a repairable shortblock into junk. If a piston skirt breaks off or snaps a rod and ruins the crank. If it got hot enough to seize a piston to the cylinder , the piston is ready to break . If pulling the drive and checking for binding in the drive plate area doesn't fix the lock-up, pull the intake and heads and have a look see. Ya you might get it to turn over but if you try to run it it might cost a heck of a lot later in ruined parts. If it's stuck a piston there will be bits of aluminum and piston ring circulating in the oil messing up the crank surfaces and clogging everything up.

 

[4Winns2]

Re: Starting issue or seized engine???

Ayuh,..... Extra pair of Hands,..??..??

6 or 8 Nuts,+ that 80lbs. of drive is Off,+ in the Garage.......

You're right and usually I can do it by myself but I pulled a muscle in my back at work last week and I'm not pushing it's recovery at this point. Can't seem to get the wife interested in outdrive repair and maintenance. I "wonder" why that is? LOL

 

[4Winns2]

Re: Starting issue or seized engine???

if it was me, I would check the rotating assembly for binding, pull the drive, and try to bar over. If it is stuck internally ,spraying might loosen it up , but there is no way I would start it after being seized. You could turn a repairable shortblock into junk. If a piston skirt breaks off or snaps a rod and ruins the crank. If it got hot enough to seize a piston to the cylinder , the piston is ready to break . If pulling the drive and checking for binding in the drive plate area doesn't fix the lock-up, pull the intake and heads and have a look see. Ya you might get it to turn over but if you try to run it it might cost a heck of a lot later in ruined parts. If it's stuck a piston there will be bits of aluminum and piston ring circulating in the oil messing up the crank surfaces and clogging everything up.

hard-3:

Yes sir, a great deal of wisdom in your assessment. I will heed the advice.

I'll sign off now and go home and see what becomes of my efforts. I'll update you all on the results tomorrow. Again, I can thank you all enough for your expertise and effort today.

 

[4Winns2]

Re: Starting issue or seized engine???

Well the verdict is in on my seized issue- -a big ouch here!

Pulled the engine and tore her down. Crankshaft split in two back by the rear of the shaft. Little bit of shavings in the oil pan. She didn't run but a second or two when she shut off so I'm guessing it would be safe just to replace the crankshaft??????????

I'm wondering now whether to go the extra money and put a short block (tough to find) in or just buy a crankshaft kit.

?'s:

1. Am I looking for a marine application crankshaft?
2. What kind of price range am I looking at here?
3. Would you risk replacing the crank or go the extra money for the short (if I can find one) or long block?

Thanks in advance for any help you guys give.

 

[4Winns2]

Re: Starting issue or seized engine???

Bump

Bondo & Mikdee, you out there?

 

[Uraijit]

Re: Starting issue or seized engine???

Don't think there's such a thing as a "Marine" crank shaft. You just need a 4.3L Chevy crank.

If it were me, I'd just marinize a salvage yard short block, and put your old heads/intake/accessories on it.

 

[4Winns2]

Re: Starting issue or seized engine???

Don't think there's such a thing as a "Marine" crank shaft. You just need a 4.3L Chevy crank.

If it were me, I'd just marinize a salvage yard short block, and put your old heads/intake/accessories on it.

Thanks for the info. I'll go about finding a crank for it and a gasket set. I've only got a northeast (weekend use for four months) 4 seasons on this re-manned engine.

I'm just concerned what caused this crank to split like that. Some have mentioned the manifolds might be bad and it leaked water down into the rear cylinders.... Some are suspecting the oil pump. Head scratching stuff. I just know I don't want to have to pull the engine again any time soon.

 

[JustJason]

Re: Starting issue or seized engine???

any chance you can post some pictures of the crank and the bearings that went along with it? as well as the caps?

 

[Uraijit]

Re: Starting issue or seized engine???

It's possible that there was a hariline fracture in the crank when the engine was "remanufactured". Might have just needed a little bit of heat/oil starvation/shock, to finish it off. There's no telling, really.

If you're going to stick with the old block, make sure you break out the micrometers/slide caliper, and some telescoping gauges, and make sure everything's still in spec. Might be worth it to take it to a machine shop and have the block magnifluxed/x-rayed, to check for cracks or other "invisible" damage to the block. It'd sure be a bummer to put all the time and money into this engine, only to find out that there were other problems with it.

Good luck!

 

[4Winns2]

Re: Starting issue or seized engine???

any chance you can post some pictures of the crank and the bearings that went along with it? as well as the caps?

We're going to pull the crank out tomorrow night. I'll bring the camera along to get some pics.