Starting Issues

[hgmatt]

I have an 89 85 hp Force that has a little trouble starting the first time around. If I'm out in the water or in the driveway with muffs, the motor won't start unless its in the tilted up and locked position. I can spend 20 mins trying to start it when its down, but if I leave it up, it starts right away. Once I get it started the first time, it will start right up in the down position all day. Any idea what's wrong?

 

[chuckz]

Re: Starting Issues

About the only things in the fuel system that are sensitive to position are the carb floats. Sounds like they are sticking closed until you start the engine. Try doing a decarb not so much to rid the engine of carbon but to dissolve any gum in the carb bowls.

 

[hgmatt]

Re: Starting Issues

I've done a decarb in the last month, but I'm going to be rebuilding the carbs over the next few weeks. Is it okay to rebuilt each carb seperately? EX: Rebuild a carb this week, wait a few weeks & use the boat, then rebuild the next carb, etc. My bottom carb is leaking from the fuel bowl, and I had planned on rebuilding it anyways.

 

[QuadManiac]

Re: Starting Issues

When I try and start my 90 in the up position it floods out completely... Yours should be flooding (or very rich) up there too. If rich gets you started, have you checked your choke system to see if it's working? (you push in on your key when starting cold to choke it, right?)

 

[hgmatt]

Re: Starting Issues

The choke opens/closes the choke butterfly valve from fully open to fully closed, so it works just fine. Anytime I start when cold, I use the choke, but it won't start unless its in the tilted position. Once I tilt it up, it starts right up (if I begin the starting sequence with the motor tilted up, it takes about 2 5 sec. cranks and it fires right up). I also seem to think that it is either flooding or the float valve(s) are sticking after I prime the engine.

I just recieved my first carb rebuild kit, and should be able to rebuild it in a couple of weeks (going to the lake next weekend, don't want to push my luck).

 

[QuadManiac]

Re: Starting Issues

Perhaps a stupid question, but you are squeezing your fuel bulb till firm, prior to cold start?

 

[hgmatt]

Re: Starting Issues

I am, am I not supposed to?

 

[hgmatt]

Re: Starting Issues

Alright, I had my boat out last weekend, and tried to start it again in the water. The motor was in the vertical position and would not start. I primed the motor, didn't pump it until it was hard, but enough to feel flow through the prime pump. It wouldn't start in this position, once I moved it into the horizontal position, (towing position) it started after the second crank. Ran all day, never had a problem with it starting again (when skiing so lots of starts and stops).
The next morning, when out to start it again, wouldn't start in the vertical position, lifted up into the horizontal position, started right up. The biggest difference between the first day and the second day was that on the second day, I didn't prime the motor.
I haven't rebuilt the carbs yet, as it runs just fine after the initial start (there is lots of ski season left in Georgia). Any suggestions other than carb rebuilding?

 

[QuadManiac]

Re: Starting Issues

That is just wierd! As I said, if i try to start mine in the travel lock position, it floods out and I have to lower it and wait a good while before it will start. When in the lowered position, it starts within a couple of seconds, always, with choke if completely cold, without choke if it's been run within the last hour or two.

Seems like you need more gas to start cold than you are currently getting.

Pumping the bulb till firm is fine, it just pre-fills the float bowls if they have emptied over time due to evaporation. I thought, at first, that if you weren't priming the bulb, that your float bowl levels might be low, and so tipping the engine up allowed access to the lesser amount of fuel available, till the fuel pump refilled them.... but that seems to not be your case.

It's a poser to me... anybody else???

 

[KOT]

Re: Starting Issues

Could it be that there is some kind of wire or hose pinching or clamping happening when the motor is in the vertical position?

 

[rjunepearl]

Re: Starting Issues

Make sure your starter switch in the neutral position whether tilted or not. It might be loose when you move it. It's located on the upper cable of the two red ones.

 

[hgmatt]

Re: Starting Issues

KOT: I don't think there is anything clamping in the vertical position because once I get it started, it starts the rest of the day in the vertical position. I went skiing, so there were lots of starts and stops and started up just fine.

rjunepearl: The neutral switch deacivates the starter circuit. I know this because I thought my starter solenoid was bad, then began testing around the circuit and discovered that my neutral switch was not being toggled, so I adjusted the shift linkage and it began starting again.

Quadmaniac: I think you may be on to something. I've adjusted my carbs in the last few months, and come to think of it, this problem started just after I did that. If the tow position causes flooding in your motor, my thought would be that it should cause the same flooding. If my fuel mixture screws are set to lean, do you think this might be the culprit? They are set at about 1 turn from lightly seated, adjusted from 3 to 5 turns out. The previous owner ran the fuel-oil mix at about 40:1 & at this 3 to 5 turns (he was afraid of running too lean).

 

[Nate3172]

Re: Starting Issues

I would be running somewhere closer to 45:1 or 50:1 oil mix unless it is a fresh rebuild and has no break-in time. 40:1 is a little heavy. Put fresh plugs in it, put fresh gas with a good oil mix and then get her fired up and warmed up and then re-adjust your idle mixture screws. Turn one screw at a time and turn it in until the engine is racing from being lean. Then turn it out until it stumbles. Adjust somewhere between these two points and you should be fine. Go slow. About 1/8 of a turn at a time with a good pause in between so the engine can stabelize itself to the adjustments.

 

[skinerine]

Re: Starting Issues

ALCON,
I just got jacked on a boat I bought on EBAY (89 Force 150). I should have known it was a problem when I got there. The motor was already hot and cranked right up. The jerk I bought it from said if the engine was in the stow position, the Carb bowls flood out and I would need to drain them when the engine is placed down. He just put a new starter on the motor, I get home and put it in the water and it turned over twice and the starter went out. Bought a new starter and did what he said and it will not start (turns over but will not start). I'm new at this boating stuff and as you can tell, I don't know what to do!!! I see the posting on the engine positions, I'll try the different positions to start it, I don't even know where the choke is (1989 Cobra Bass Boat). Note: The reason the owner is a jerk, the boat is Jerry Rigged in every aspect I can see to include the trailer lights. I'm assuming he used some sort of starting fluid and basicly burnt the starter out prior to my arrival, if this is the case look for this boat on the classified adds, I'll be done with it!!!!!! Help please
Michael

 

[QuadManiac]

Re: Starting Issues

hg,

40:1 will make it run leaner - 20% more oil (which doesn't burn) and 0.5% less gas in (nearly) the same volume being mixed with the air. Not sure if thats lean enough (with only about 0.5% less fuel/air ratio) to make it hard to start cold, but no wonder he was running 4 turns out...

I'm still assuming that you are running lean - tipping the engine up will richen drastically and allow it to cold start. But, I think I'm reading in here (without you actually saying it) that you are now running 50:1? If so, follow Nate's advice for setting the A/F screws and it may do the trick. If still running 40:1, try 50:1 and see if the problem vanishes.

Good Luck!