Steer outboard from inboard tiller

[Bondo]

Re: Steer outboard from inboard tiller

I tried to find more info on the www about "how to" series hydraulic cylinders but didn't come up with much.

Ayuh,... You just can Not run series circuits with Hyd.s....
Oil goes Into the cylinders,+ back out the same line... Each line is a Dead End...
You'll need to design Twin, Parallel circuits...

 

[Lion hunter]

Re: Steer outboard from inboard tiller

They have got to make a manifold to go from one pump to multiple cylinders.

 

[Bruizer]

Re: Steer outboard from inboard tiller

...You'll need to design Twin, Parallel circuits...

Thanks. Where might a person look to learn more about twin/parallel ckts?

 

[abj87]

Re: Steer outboard from inboard tiller

Now whats wrong with locking the kicker strait ahead and using the main rudder like normal it wont be as responsive as normal, but a few knots of boat speed should keep it working. Keep the steering system SIMPLE, the more components you have the more prone to failure, loosing your steering is a BIG deal. If you decide to go dual hydraulic get an engineer to design your system.

 

[Bruizer]

Re: Steer outboard from inboard tiller

Thanks for your replies.

Now whats wrong with locking the kicker strait ahead and using the main rudder...

As stated in previous post...
Having a direct link will allow the autopilot to steer while trolling.

If you decide to go dual hydraulic get an engineer to design your system.

Perhaps an engineer will read this thread.

 

[Bruizer]

Re: Steer outboard from inboard tiller

I asked the people at Seastar if I could do that with a Seastar splashwell mount outboard steering cylinder (HC5380) on the swim platform and teeing into the existing plumbing (Seastar 5271 helm, 5313 cylinder, Raymarine Type 1 pump). This is the answer I got:

Dennis: This will not work. The two cylinders are not the same in any way, this means that the whole steering of the boat will change. Teleflex doesn't have any recommendations in regards to this sort of set up.
I have seen customers install a solenoid valve to allow the helmsman to choose from one cylinder to another.
Basically you cannot run these two cylinders at the same time. You will need some sort of selector that will direct fluid from the helm to one cylinder at a time. Thanks and hope that this helps.
Marc

I sent a new email to the people at Seastar. Here's what they said about using two identical cylinders:

As the maker of this product, we do not test this cylinder mounted to an outboard so we really cannot recommend doing this type of installation. However, to tee into the hydraulics, you can add a set of tee fittings to the main lines coming from the helm pump, then, tee off to both cylinders (I have attached a diagram for your reference).

There are some issues that you should be made aware of with this sort of installation. Depending on the make and model of the kicker engine that you go for, you want to be 100% sure that the inboard cylinder is able to FULLY stroke out in both directions. If the engine stops before the cylinder is fully stroked, the cylinder may end up damaging something on the kicker. These cylinders push out a lot of force.

If the turning radius of the kicker is shorter than that of the rudders, the entire steering system will be limited to cylinder that is stroking the least. For example. If the rudders deflect at 30 degrees, and, the kicker only deflects at 25 degrees, you will loose the 5 degrees on the rudder itself. This may not sound like a lot, but, it will change what you are currently used to. Adding a second cylinder will also double the amount of wheel turns that you currently have (adding a cylinder is doubling the total volume of the system)

What I have seen done up here in the Northwest, and it seems to work just fine, is the owner?s install the proper steering cylinder for the kicker and a 3-way solenoid. When required, they simply switch the solenoid to operate the kicker motor, and then switch back when they turn the kicker OFF.
The above has its limitations as well, such as; Rudders do not turn when the kicker does (this makes for a fairly large turning radius). Again, as with the above, is not recommended by Teleflex Marine.
I hope that this helps and if you have any questions please feel free to ask. Thanks, Marc

I'm going to gather up the parts and give it a try. Stay tuned...

 

[Bondo]

Re: Steer outboard from inboard tiller

I'm going to gather up the parts and give it a try. Stay tuned...

Ayuh,... That Marc fella is not only Hyd. Smart,... He's quite eloquent about it....
I like the 3-way solenoid idea.......

How are you thinkin'bout hooking up the kicker ram,..??
Do they make a tilt-tube mounted 1,..?? If so, will they give you it's displacement,..??
Ya gotta decide whether to Adapt at the kicker, or the tiller....

 

[Mike Robinson]

Re: Steer outboard from inboard tiller

Are you sure you can't you use the autopilot with the rudder with the kicker locked in one postion?

If you haven't already, it's worth a try as there's nothing to lose except a bit of time. As already stated simplest is best if you can get away with it.

It will take a little experimenting to find the best postion for the kicker. As the kicker is mounted off to the port side of the transom I would suspect that the kicker would need to be turned to port slightly so that the boat travels straight ahead with the rudder centered.

If the rudder isn't too small and there isn't too much wind it may just work well enough.

Edit: Sorry Bruizer, some how I missed your post stating that this will not work. Never mind.

 

[Bruizer]

Re: Steer outboard from inboard tiller

Are you sure you can't you use the autopilot with the rudder with the kicker locked in one postion? Edit: Sorry Bruizer, some how I missed your post stating that this will not work. Never mind.

That's OK, thanks for the post.

 

[Bruizer]

Re: Steer outboard from inboard tiller

Ayuh,... That Marc fella is not only Hyd. Smart,... He's quite eloquent about it....
I like the 3-way solenoid idea.......

How are you thinkin'bout hooking up the kicker ram,..??
Do they make a tilt-tube mounted 1,..?? If so, will they give you it's displacement,..??
Ya gotta decide whether to Adapt at the kicker, or the tiller....

It will be a side mount cylinder, either a Seastar HC5370 or Uflex UC132-OBS. They both have the same displacement as the cylinder on the rudder. Will have to see if the cylinders stroke the same lock to lock. Thanks.

 

[Bruizer]

Re: Steer outboard from inboard tiller

Hello All,

Just finished adding hydraulic steering to the trolling motor. Tapped into the existing steering with a 6 way solenoid valve. The valve allows steering from MAIN or TROLLING. With this setup and the Raymarine X-10 autopilot, the trolling motor can now be steered by the autopilot. Let's go fishin'

 

[Bondo]

Re: Steer outboard from inboard tiller

Ayuh,... Danm Sweet lookin' set up,.... Hope it works out as expected,....

 

[Bruizer]

Re: Steer outboard from inboard tiller

Thanks. Gotta do a bottom paint job this year so we won't be able to get out there until mid May.

 

[Bruizer]

Re: Steer outboard from inboard tiller

Thanks. Gotta do a bottom paint job this year so we won't be able to get out there until mid May.

Update: Steering system works great. Autopilot steers kicker great as long as the waves and wind are not too bad on Lake Michigan. Also wired the kicker to the ship's battery so it will charge while trolling. Had to install an interlock so the main motor and kicker cannot run at the same time. This prevents charging system damage.