Steering Play Question

[needasride]

Hi all.. I've got a steering play question, I've searched the archives and can't really nail it from there..

1995 Blue Water Alpha w/Mercruiser 3.0LX Alpha One, power steering.

There is about 2" of play in the steering wheel before the slight movement at the steering gear that is, from what I read in my searches, normal.. .

I can hear motion in the cable housing, so I eliminated the steering box at the steering wheel as the cause.

I have not checked the cable end nut that attaches to the steering system for tightness but I'm assuming (I know, never *** ume )

Does not appear to be any slop in the outdrive (moving it side to side only yields a small, less than an inch amount of movement in the drive (standing at the back of boat pushing side to side)

It really appears to be just cable play.. Is there a way to tighten this?

I'm grabbing a wrench right now heading out to see if that attach nut is tight..

Would a pic help ?

Thanks in advance, this is an invaluable forum for boaters!

Wayne
PS.. this is my first boat and I'm absolutely loving life (59 yrs old, early retiree)

 

[jtmarten]

Re: Steering Play Question

You should have no play side/side. The tiller bolts on the gimbal housing need to be torqued to 50-55lbs, its part of yearly maint.

 

[needasride]

Re: Steering Play Question

You should have no play side/side. The tiller bolts on the gimbal housing need to be torqued to 50-55lbs, its part of yearly maint.

Thanks for the info... is that something I can do from inside the boat?

(sorry for ignorance)

Wayne

 

[jtmarten]

Re: Steering Play Question

Outside on the gimbal ring. Two through-bolts at the top. You should find pics I posted showing the location by doing a search. I don't have them on my work laptop.

Here ya go:
http://forums.iboats.com/showthread.php?t=399185&highlight=steering+play

 

[needasride]

Re: Steering Play Question

Outside on the gimbal ring. Two through-bolts at the top. You should find pics I posted showing the location by doing a search. I don't have them on my work laptop.

Here ya go:
http://forums.iboats.com/showthread.php?t=399185&highlight=steering+play

I'm finding some confusing info on this subject... there's a post *somewhere* on the net where a guy states that these should only be torqued once, when installed and if retorqued, will, likely, break....

My head is spinning on this! I also need to check if my play is actually in the cable housing itself.. I'll pull the cable nut off and see if it actually moves with the wheel b-4 torquing bolts. Obviously, I need a manual set (engine/OD)I'm extremely mechanically inclined, used to be a fleet manager... forklifts, big and small trucks, equipment, etc... I've just never worked on a boa

Prolly should have looked longer and found a boat with less problems but we're sure having fun with our first boat!

Wayne
17' 2005 Blue Water Alpha
3.0 Mercruiser LX
Alpha One

 

[needasride]

Re: Steering Play Question

Also more questions.... (THANKS FOR YOUR PATIENCE WITH THE NEWB!)...

I'm assuming these two bolts are what tighten the pinch connection at the top of the square (later models) tiller shaft to the tiller lever?

Thanks again for your patience!!

Wayne
17' 2005 Blue Water Alpha
3.0 Mercruiser LX
Alpha One

 

[Hank496]

Re: Steering Play Question

Wayne,

The nuts are actually on the ends of a u-bolt. You are right it clamps the aluminum gimbal ring around the square head of the pin. You can try re-torquing, but it is pretty much a Hail Mary play if you have that much slop in the steering.

Here is a link to the Club Sea Ray site. It shows how this can be repaired on a Bravo. It has a lot of pictures and the process are parts are very similar if you have an Alpha.

http://clubsearay.com/forum/showthread.php?t=26571&highlight=gimbal

 

[needasride]

Re: Steering Play Question

Wayne,

The nuts are actually on the ends of a u-bolt. You are right it clamps the aluminum gimbal ring around the square head of the pin. You can try re-torquing, but it is pretty much a Hail Mary play if you have that much slop in the steering.

Here is a link to the Club Sea Ray site. It shows how this can be repaired on a Bravo. It has a lot of pictures and the process are parts are very similar if you have an Alpha.

http://clubsearay.com/forum/showthread.php?t=26571&highlight=gimbal

I wound up having good news and bad news on this.... the good news, everything "south" of the connections to the tiller arm is SOLID!

With an "assistant" (my GF, the boat owner) wiggling the steering wheel, the play is actually a combination of slack in the cable housing, and slack in the pins where the power steering unit actually connects to the tiller arm.. a tiny bit here, a tiny bit there, adding up to 2" at the steering wheel...

NOTHING south of that last interior, cable/PS unit connection...

NOT sure how to correct this "slop"... 2" inches at the wheel, about 1/8" or less measured at the OD farthest point of the OD when in the up position pushing against stationary..

No obvious slop between the tiller arm to tiller shaft, no obvious slop at the OD..

I'll pull the pins in the linkages between the tiller arm and the PS unit and see if there is any wear that I can see.... I guess I'm being too picky?

I'm a "wrench" kind of guy and I don't usually accept "acceptable" when it comes to stuff I "drive" and work on...

So.. good news bad news.. I don't have a significant problem (hopefully) but bad news, I'm not sure that a bit of "slop" is not "normal" with cable drive steering (this IS the first boat I've ever owned or driven"....

Thanks so much for all the help!!

Wayne
17' 2005 Blue Water Alpha
3.0 Mercruiser LX
Alpha One

 

[jtmarten]

Re: Steering Play Question

I'm finding some confusing info on this subject... there's a post *somewhere* on the net where a guy states that these should only be torqued once, when installed and if retorqued, will, likely, break....

Probably from the sterndrives.com site. Funny though, the Mercruiser service manual shows it as a yearly maintenance item. I emailed and asked sterndrives why the diff in what they said compared to Mercruiser, I received no response.
Search for it, I did before re-torquing mine, and many others have done it and do it every year. It eliminated 1/8" and 1/4" play on mine. I'll continue to re-torque them every year.

 

[needasride]

Re: Steering Play Question

Probably from the sterndrives.com site. Funny though, the Mercruiser service manual shows it as a yearly maintenance item. I emailed and asked sterndrives why the diff in what they said compared to Mercruiser, I received no response.
Search for it, I did before re-torquing mine, and many others have done it and do it every year. It eliminated 1/8" and 1/4" play on mine. I'll continue to re-torque them every year.

I actually had my torque wrench in my hand today... The guy I bought her from said he'd had the outdrive serviced... I guess I'll believe him. I saw zero play anywhere of concern, other than those little bits of play in the linkages and cable housing that are adding up to the "slop"... it's really not at all an issue except for one of the areas I regularly boat in is a pretty long "5mph no wake zone".. if I stay on top of it, and don't overcorrect, it's not that aggrivating, if I let it go, the play is.. 'notable'... but now that I know that it's not really "that" bad... (not OD issues) I'm more comfortable and ready to rise to the challenge of owning a 1995 boat!

I did find two things today that made me feel pretty good.. the trim gauge wires were somewhat wrapped around the drive from the engine to the OD.. several bare areas, some fray.. also found the fuel tank vent hose to be just about fubar... bad combo!

Fixed both.

Got er out of the water at the coast, (pacific NW, where they train the badwater Coasties) so I'm not to anxious to stick it in the water here, but having fun working on er on the trailer!

Thanks for such a good meeting place!

Wayne
17' 2005 Blue Water Alpha
3.0 Mercruiser LX
Alpha One

 

[ni7irs]

Re: Steering Play Question

As long as we are on this topic, how much should the sterndrive move from side to side if you push on it?

 

[jtmarten]

Re: Steering Play Question

... it's really not at all an issue except for one of the areas I regularly boat in is a pretty long "5mph no wake zone".. if I stay on top of it, and don't overcorrect, it's not that aggrivating, if I let it go, the play is.. 'notable'... but now that I know that it's not really "that" bad... (not OD issues) I'm more comfortable and ready to rise to the challenge of owning a 1995 boat!

Low speed wander isn't indicative of steering play. Just an intrinsic property of V-hulls we all have to deal with.

 

[stonyloam]

Re: Steering Play Question

As long as we are on this topic, how much should the sterndrive move from side to side if you push on it?

There should be no play at all between the sterndrive and the end of the steering arm. In other words the gimbal ring to the square pivot shaft should be tight and the steering arm to the pivot shaft (square or spline) should be tight. On an alpha, retorque the clamping bolts to 50-55 ft lb every year.

 

[stonyloam]

Re: Steering Play Question

Ithere's a post *somewhere* on the net where a guy states that these should only be torqued once, when installed and if retorqued, will, likely, break....

Which one do you think is correct?

From the "BOOK" for both gen. I and gen. II
Every 100 hr or annually:

"Gimbal Ring Clamping Screws - Retorque to
50-55 ft. lb. (67-74 N?m)".

 

[needasride]

Re: Steering Play Question

As long as we are on this topic, how much should the sterndrive move from side to side if you push on it?

About an eighth inch all the way at the furthest point away from the transom..

 

[needasride]

Re: Steering Play Question

Which one do you think is correct?

From the "BOOK" for both gen. I and gen. II
Every 100 hr or annually:

"Gimbal Ring Clamping Screws - Retorque to
50-55 ft. lb. (67-74 N?m)".

More than likely, the book.. though I've not actually seen the book....

 

[needasride]

Re: Steering Play Question

There should be no play at all between the sterndrive and the end of the steering arm. In other words the gimbal ring to the square pivot shaft should be tight and the steering arm to the pivot shaft (square or spline) should be tight. On an alpha, retorque the clamping bolts to 50-55 ft lb every year.

It is tight from there.. the only play I can see is actually in the linkages between the PS system within and visible from the inside of the boat.. Most notable where the steering connects to the end of the tiller arm.. (slop between the pin, arm and steering system)

I will torque the bolts just for good measure...

 

[stonyloam]

Re: Steering Play Question

*somewhere* on the net .........

Sorry if I seem a little touchy on that subject, but a while back, before I knew better I read that crapola too. Wound up removing the gimbal ring (major PATA), when I really only needed to retorque the clamping bolts. Lesson learned the hard way, so hate to see someone heading down the wrong path.

 

[trumanlake]

Re: Steering Play Question

Have some play in mine also. Have tracked it back to the helm. Will have to investigate over the winter. Seems where the steering gear mates with the rack gear on the steering cable is where it is.

 

[needasride]

Re: Steering Play Question

Sorry if I seem a little touchy on that subject, but a while back, before I knew better I read that crapola too. Wound up removing the gimbal ring (major PATA), when I really only needed to retorque the clamping bolts. Lesson learned the hard way, so hate to see someone heading down the wrong path.

I think I'm in pretty good shape overall. Looking closely, r.e. earlier posts, the slop/play that I do have is the sum of the cable housing wear, pin to clevis wear.. only.

I WILL torque those bolts! In my case, this time, that's not where the play is showing in my observations whilst the wheel is turned back and forth.