Steering question ~ apologies in advance if this is not the correct department

[Tim Frank]

I replaced the old cable and pulley system on my boat with a used single cable system that was in very good shape.
Just completed a transom repair with motor off and now that I am reconnecting everything would like to address two minor steering issues.

1) The steering wheel is not centred when the motor is dead-straight ahead.
This is entirely aesthetic and no operating concern whatever.
2) There is more steering range in one direction...not surprising in light of 1) , but not enough to make any real difference in operating the boat. About 1-1/2 turns more to starboard, but to port there is more than enough steering.

If there is no clear and easy fix i will just drive on and lose no sleep, but If there is anywhere that I can get an answer it is in here.

At the end of the cable output ram, there is a thread-on "tie-rod" end that has a swivel that the link arm from the motor connects to. At least that is how I connected things.
If you unscrew the "tie-rod" end, there is still a flattened spot on the output ram that would accept the link arm, and there is a bare male thread left on the end of the output ram. i.e. the tie rod end has an internal/female thread.
It doesn't look or feel right that that is where you would attach the link arm.
The hanging thread seems "unfinished".
The tie rod end appears to offer some fine adjustment possibility and indeed could probably centre the wheel, but there is no way that it can be adjusted enough to give equal travel port to starboard.
Using the "alternate" hole is a finite step that solves the port/starbord issue, but has no fine adjustment that would centre the wheel.

Two questions then (finally!...) :

1) It seems proper and correct to use that tie-rod...and if so, what might that other hole be for?

2) Do you make ANY adjustments by screwing in or unscrewing the tie rod end (I can see that posing some risk)....or should it be fully threaded all the time, and if the latter, in general (since I don't at this time have any brand info on the steering mechanism) can you make some adjustment at the steering wheel end?

Thaks, Tim

 

[j_martin]

Re: Steering question ~ apologies in advance if this is not the correct department

It would sure help to know what motor, and what brand and type of steering we are talking about.

Pictures help some of us, also.

John

 

[HappierWet]

Re: Steering question ~ apologies in advance if this is not the correct department

How about some picture of the hub under the dash as well? I think that is your adjustment.

 

[Chris1956]

Re: Steering question ~ apologies in advance if this is not the correct department

Tim The steering wheel may be adjusted to be straight on, when the boat is going straight on. You simply adjust the motor to the proper position and then disconnect the cable from the wheel, adjust the wheel to the proper position and reattach. This works on the rack and pinon steering setups. I am not sure if it will work on rotary steering.

As for the steering one way better, the length of the link rod from the cable to the motor is incorrect. If the motor steers more to the right, the link is too short.

 

[reelfishin]

Re: Steering question ~ apologies in advance if this is not the correct department

Most rotary systems have a keyed steering wheel and only one position in which the cable will attach. I have seen a few steering wheels with multiple key slots but nothing to make a fine adjustment.
It is important to have the correct steering link on the motor too.
Make sure there's nothing obstructing the motor or cable in one direction vs. the other. With the motor straight ahead, and the steering turned to the center point by counting turns, the steering link will ideally be right in line with both the cable end and the motor. While this doesn't always work out perfect in the real world, it's normally close if all parts are correct. I have bent steering links to make things closer but I've only had to do that on two installs.
I've also had boats with spacers or extension adapters on the steer tube to space back the cable but this solution will also reduce the overall turning radius.

On a rack system, it's just a matter of moving the pinion gear one tooth ahead or back on the rack gear. This is usually done by either removing the input gear assembly from the rack as a whole or on some simply buy removing the wheel and dropping the input shaft out and advancing the rack gear a tooth to align center.

Post a pic of your steering system and motor set up so we can get a better idea of exactly what you have.

 

[Tim Frank]

Re: Steering question ~ apologies in advance if this is not the correct department

Most rotary systems have a keyed steering wheel and only one position in which the cable will attach. I have seen a few steering wheels with multiple key slots but nothing to make a fine adjustment.
It is important to have the correct steering link on the motor too.
Make sure there's nothing obstructing the motor or cable in one direction vs. the other. With the motor straight ahead, and the steering turned to the center point by counting turns, the steering link will ideally be right in line with both the cable end and the motor. While this doesn't always work out perfect in the real world, it's normally close if all parts are correct. I have bent steering links to make things closer but I've only had to do that on two installs.
I've also had boats with spacers or extension adapters on the steer tube to space back the cable but this solution will also reduce the overall turning radius.

On a rack system, it's just a matter of moving the pinion gear one tooth ahead or back on the rack gear. This is usually done by either removing the input gear assembly from the rack as a whole or on some simply buy removing the wheel and dropping the input shaft out and advancing the rack gear a tooth to align center.

Post a pic of your steering system and motor set up so we can get a better idea of exactly what you have.

....................

Thanks all for responses to date.
I am almost sure that it is a rotary system .... and I know the motor is a 40HP Nissan, 2005 model.

I won't be able to get pics until the weekend so this will have to wait. But just from the responses to date, I think it really is as simple as the drag link/link arm simply being too long....although I believe that it is the correct one for my motor, it may not be a complete match for the steering system. The light has just gone on...
Two options immediately come to mind:
1) Careful and appropriate bending of the link rod
~ or ~
2) Source one that is the correct rod diameter and effective length for the actual physical layout.

Also, I did notice that the motor bracket under the front lower cowling, where the link rod connects, has two holes to attach the rod.....one on each side of the centre line of the motor, about 3 " apart in all.
With no instructions, I used the hole on the same side as the link arm attached to the cable end, and everything seemed fine.
If there is no reason not to attach it to the off-side hole, that 3 " might be the fix....it would effectively shorten the apparant length of the link rod by 3".
It may be that in fact this is the way it should have been connected all along.
Someone in here probably knows, and if so, why.

 

[reelfishin]

Re: Steering question ~ apologies in advance if this is not the correct department

Sounds to me like you found the likely cause. They wouldn't have the extra hole unless they found it was needed.
I ran into a few odd setups over the years that either needed the link bent or cut and welded, but I've never had to do it on a Merc or Evinrude unless it had an add on steer tube to convert a smaller or older motor.

 

[tashasdaddy]

Re: Steering question ~ apologies in advance if this is not the correct department

where the center of the steering wheel ends up, depends on where the wheel was when you started threading the cable into the helm. i have had to thread the cable into and out of the helm, several times to get it centered just right. this is a rotary helm.

 

[Tim Frank]

Re: Steering question ~ apologies in advance if this is not the correct department

I replaced the old cable and pulley system on my boat with a used single cable system that was in very good shape.
Just completed a transom repair with motor off and now that I am reconnecting everything would like to address two minor steering issues.

1) The steering wheel is not centred when the motor is dead-straight ahead.
This is entirely aesthetic and no operating concern whatever.
2) There is more steering range in one direction...not surprising in light of 1) , but not enough to make any real difference in operating the boat. About 1-1/2 turns more to starboard, but to port there is more than enough steering.

If there is no clear and easy fix i will just drive on and lose no sleep, but If there is anywhere that I can get an answer it is in here.

At the end of the cable output ram, there is a thread-on "tie-rod" end that has a swivel that the link arm from the motor connects to. At least that is how I connected things. (Refer to pic # 1)
If you unscrew the "tie-rod" end, there is still a flattened spot on the output ram that would accept the link arm, and there is a bare male thread left on the end of the output ram. i.e. the tie rod end has an internal/female thread.
It doesn't look or feel right that that is where you would attach the link arm.
The hanging thread seems "unfinished". (Pic # 2)
The tie rod end appears to offer some fine adjustment possibility and indeed could probably centre the wheel, but there is no way that it can be adjusted enough to give equal travel port to starboard.
Using the "alternate" hole is a finite step that solves the port/starbord issue, but has no fine adjustment that would centre the wheel.

1) It seems proper and correct to use that tie-rod...and if so, what might that other hole be for?



Thanks, Tim

OK, here are some pics finally.

Turns out this is a Teleflex rotary system, three turns lock to lock. As I have connected the motor (using the "tie-rod" end fitting, part A) the total effective extension if the output ram is too great and the travel is about 2:1 more to starboard than to port ....i.e. the motor turns to starboard about twice the amount it turns to port.

I had posted that I thought (from memory) that maybe I should have attached the link rod to a different spot on the motor....that i had a second option. Nope, there is only one place to attach that works; the one .

Bottom line is that the "tie-rod" end, A in picture #1, is really the problem. If I put the link rod end into hole B, the whole system is nearly exactly balanced.

I have three options :
1) Leave it and live with it.
2) Attach link rod to part B. at that point I would probably look to cut the stub hread off part B to tidy it up. Anybody see a problem with cutting that off?
3) Remove part B (if that is possible) and attach the tie-rod end onto the output ram. Does anyone know how part B is actually attached? Any chance that it is threaded somehow? or is it something factory done like swaged/crimped? Don't want to open a can of worms.

#2 is probably the smart option, but that tie-rod with its swivel fitting has a great feel and would be bnice to incorporate if possible.

Thanks,
Tim

 

[Tim Frank]

Re: Steering question ~ apologies in advance if this is not the correct department

Bump

 

[tashasdaddy]

Re: Steering question ~ apologies in advance if this is not the correct department

you still have not told us what MOTOR you are working with. if you do not have the correct link arm, for that motor, you will never solve your problems. that is the rod that goes from the end of cable to the motor..

 

[Tim Frank]

Re: Steering question ~ apologies in advance if this is not the correct department

....................

Thanks all for responses to date.
I am almost sure that it is a rotary system .... and I know the motor is a 40HP Nissan, 2005 model.

I

It is a 40HP Nissan, 2005....and the dealer supplied the link rod. It was a "genuine" Nissan accessory, but I thought it was engine-specific.
Is that not correct?

 

[tashasdaddy]

Re: Steering question ~ apologies in advance if this is not the correct department

should be correct one, then, try it in the other hole, i would not cut it, incase you ever change motors. how about a picture showing where it goes into the tilt tube, and where it comes out. so we can see both sides. maybe even a front view showing both sides.

 

[Tim Frank]

Re: Steering question ~ apologies in advance if this is not the correct department

What i am probably missing in all this is the construction of the motor end of the steering.
If you replace the cable, do you get a new "output ram" or do you swap this from the old cable?
I did a search for a schematic of a rotary system but blanked.

 

[tashasdaddy]

Re: Steering question ~ apologies in advance if this is not the correct department

what is a "output ram" never heard of the term.

 

[Tim Frank]

Re: Steering question ~ apologies in advance if this is not the correct department

It is the "business end" of the steering cable and what the link arm attaches to.
I'd never heard the term either....it is from a Teleflex instruction sheet on their website.
I did another search here in the forum and ran across the technical assistance coordinates for Teleflex. Spoke to someone in their Mechanical steering tech group and got the info that I need.

Thanks for all the responses.

 

[Tim Frank]

Re: Steering question ~ apologies in advance if this is not the correct department

Final resolution: (pic attached)

1) Teleflex service folks explained that this is an older system, +25 years...
2) There is an additional external (male) thread on the end of the "output ram" that allows an extra range of adapter attachments if necessary. This dates to the days before there was reasonable standardisation in the steering tubes on various o/boards.
3) The tech rep said that although "officially" she could not advise me that it is OK to cut that extra thread off....unoficially she said that if I did cut it off, it would not affect anything....unless at some point, for some reason, I needed it again.
4) I will probably just cap the thread with something to protect the thread end and make it look more finished.

As usual, thanks for all the comments and assistance.