Steering Wheel for Tiller Boat?

jimmbo

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One of ours had a 79 25hp, the other had an 80 35hp. Same displacement for both engines, and about 2 mph difference. No goofy Doel-Fin on either
 

JimS123

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Back in the day we all had wooden boats. They were light and had good buoyancy. We ran them with small motors, because that's all we needed. Water-ski, fishing, etc - they all did that. We didn't have any Joneses so there was nobody to beat. The marine architects designed them for performance, not for speed.

Then came heavy glass boats with heavy engines. Kinda like a 747 vs. a Piper Cub. One flys and the other needs mega HP just to keep it in the air.

THAT's when the goofy DoelFins were invented. My oldie 1952 Lyman with it's 1953 Evinrude 25 HP is my life-long dream. It's the only boat of mine that didn't benefit from a fin.
 

jimmbo

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Wooden boats are the only boats that can Float. But I will take a Glass Boat over a Wooden one every time. As for power, I learned to Waterski behind a 14 ft glass, with a 40hp Johnson. Even was able to a Deep Water Start on one Ski behind it, 3 times.
The goofy Ventilation Plate Breakers were likely invented to give the very low power I/Os a chance to get on plane
 

JimS123

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Wooden boats are the only boats that can Float. But I will take a Glass Boat over a Wooden one every time. As for power, I learned to Waterski behind a 14 ft glass, with a 40hp Johnson. Even was able to a Deep Water Start on one Ski behind it, 3 times.
The goofy Ventilation Plate Breakers were likely invented to give the very low power I/Os a chance to get on plane
Back in the day we used a 14' wooden boat with only 25 HP to pull a skiier. If I could only have 1, it would be a glass boat as well. The AV plate breakage is usually due to improper installation or using it as a step.
 

LaqueRatt

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Thanks for the input gentlemen. I'm learning a lot on this forum. I never knew you could get an extension for the rudder handle. I find it interesting and can see it being useful, but seems inherently dangerous to sit further forward which puts the kill switch and gear shift out of reach. It's bad enough nobody has figured out how to put brakes on a boat, but this just seems awfully close to the boat being completely out of control. Although I suppose one of those deadman switches attached to you would make it a bit safer.

What I find very curious though is negative opinions hear on the Doel-Fin. They sell them on Amazon and I don't think I've ever seen another product with so many great reviews. So why are some dissing it here? Sounds to me like there are several nice benefits to using one and I'm not following what is "goofy" about them. Is it just a matter of not liking how they look? So far it seems to me this is exactly what I need and the simplest way to deal with a woefully aft heavy little boat.
 

JimS123

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Thanks for the input gentlemen. I'm learning a lot on this forum. I never knew you could get an extension for the rudder handle. I find it interesting and can see it being useful, but seems inherently dangerous to sit further forward which puts the kill switch and gear shift out of reach. It's bad enough nobody has figured out how to put brakes on a boat, but this just seems awfully close to the boat being completely out of control. Although I suppose one of those deadman switches attached to you would make it a bit safer.

What I find very curious though is negative opinions hear on the Doel-Fin. They sell them on Amazon and I don't think I've ever seen another product with so many great reviews. So why are some dissing it here? Sounds to me like there are several nice benefits to using one and I'm not following what is "goofy" about them. Is it just a matter of not liking how they look? So far it seems to me this is exactly what I need and the simplest way to deal with a woefully aft heavy little boat.
My Yamaha "jetski" DOES have brakes of a sort. I can be going 50 mph and get her to completely stop in about 30 feet. But that's a jet drive. Not going to do that so easily with a prop.

Today, ALL outboard motors and I/O throttle controls are equipped with a "deadman's switch". In NY state it is illegal to drive a boat without having one attached. Old boats without them are grandfathered, but the authorities recommend that you install an aftermarket unit. There are some hilarious YouTube videos of people falling out of a boat with the engine still in forward gear.

With over 60 years Doelfin experience on 6 different boats, I have never experienced any of the negative issues that others report. I have documented data to back up my claims. And no, I don't work for the company. There are competitive products like whaletails and stingrays, but personally I don't like their design. While I was waiting for delivery of my last 2 boats I had a Doelfin on order. Right now I have a brand new spare for my next boat just in case they ever go out of business. For $39 its a cheap investment and it can always be removed if you don't like it. I admit a set of hull mounted trim tabs may be a better approach, but they are not really suited to a little tinny.
 

jimmbo

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Back in the day we used a 14' wooden boat with only 25 HP to pull a skiier. If I could only have 1, it would be a glass boat as well. The AV plate breakage is usually due to improper installation or using it as a step.
I remember my uncle skiing behind his homemade 16 ft boat with a 1955 Evinrude 25hp. I recall the Skies being much larger than the ones I used, when I learned to ski

Edit: I wonder if I have any pictures of that Combo
 

airshot

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Bottom line is the tail fins have their place in light weight boats that are stern heavy....normally weight can be shifted to help the boat get up on plane more quickly!! Some folks refuse to try the balancing act and sometimes there is just to much weight at the back when the driver sits back there. If all else fails, the fins can be an advantage, they do work when used properly!
They get a bad name when folks use them as a short cut and the fin is used where it doesnt belong. Many folks buy smaller boats then put large heavy motors on the back, or for a fewvyears mfgrs added I/O's in small boats because they were cheaper than outboards. Many 16' runabouts had 140-175 hp I/O's installed as speed demons.....but they were very stern heavy, then the mfgrs added jump seats in the back for more seating capacity. However adding two heavy adults to an already stern heavy boat was a poor performer !! So the easy solution was to add a tail fin....at speed they worked well but at slow speed not so well, so people tried making them bigger to work at slower speeds. This added drag caused cav plate failures where higher hp and heavy weight were present. When used on smaller motors on lighter weight boats where weight distribution is not feasable, they do work !! Used them numerous times, but I typically made my own. As a toolmaker for many years it was simple and minevwere smaller and made from SS creating far less drag than some of the monster fins you will see out there today.
Like most anything, there is a time and a place to use one, when you exceed the design capacity, something has to give, this is where most complaints come from.
 

LaqueRatt

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Wow Jimmbo, that boat sounds sweet! Whatcha running? No fin I assume?

Can't believe all you read online obviously, but what I did read said the fin improves every aspect of boating including fuel economy and top speed. Really sounds like a win-win type of deal. Wish I'da heard of these earlier, I would have put one on my Xmas list!

I understand weight can be shifted to alleviate my problem, but with the boat narrowing towards the front and the floor becoming more angled I can't see having the fuel tank forward not being a pain in the keister. Also I'd have a bunch of fuel line lying around. Prob not all that safe. Even worse with the battery. Prob cost me a fortune to run cables from front to back. I also suspect battery life would be reduced by all the additional bouncing it would encounter in the front.

Maybe I'll get comfortable enough to leave the troller and battery behind once I string a few more drama free boat rides together. At one point last summer out of 10 trips out, 8 of them involved limping back on battery power. God was I happy to have that HD troller on the transom. One of the main reasons I bought the boat actually. It was slow going, but I got back to the launch every time without breaking out the oars.
 

JimS123

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Maybe I'll get comfortable enough to leave the troller and battery behind once I string a few more drama free boat rides together. At one point last summer out of 10 trips out, 8 of them involved limping back on battery power. God was I happy to have that HD troller on the transom. One of the main reasons I bought the boat actually. It was slow going, but I got back to the launch every time without breaking out the oars.
You didn't tell us any of that before. Maybe the root of your problem is the engine. If it's not performing at capacity, maybe that's the reason why you have planing problems. An 80% failure rate would also cause me great concern.

The 14' Starcraft below carries a 25 HP 2-stroke, a 6.5 gal gas tank, a Group 24 battery and a Minn-Kota all behind the helm seat. It jumped to plane very easily. All the fin did was eliminate the bow rise.

1671817813752.jpeg
 

LaqueRatt

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The main problem was I bought two old motors and both were in a lot worse state than advertised. All issues have since been resolved. Still with either motor that boat will only maintain a plane at 3/4 throttle or more. I get tired of screaming around this little lake. I'd kinda like to take my time and enjoy the scenery! Here's a couple vids I made to give you an idea how the boat planes.

McCulloch 14 Test Run

Fastwin 18 Test Run
 

JimS123

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The main problem was I bought two old motors and both were in a lot worse state than advertised. All issues have since been resolved. Still with either motor that boat will only maintain a plane at 3/4 throttle or more. I get tired of screaming around this little lake. I'd kinda like to take my time and enjoy the scenery! Here's a couple vids I made to give you an idea how the boat planes.

McCulloch 14 Test Run

Fastwin 18 Test Run
Well, I dunno, but based on the videos the planing ability doesn't look too bad to me. The hole shot looks like what I would expect, and I would be happy with it. Yours is a relatively light boat and should perform very well with that HP. Now, don't expect whiplash like Jimmbo's I/O, but both boats have different uses.

Those pics show 2 things. With the McColloch you are porpoising. My guess is that the motor was not trimmed right.

But the real question here is that your transom looks like it was cut down. Doesn't look like a factory job. And if it indeed was a long to short shaft cutdown, it wasn't cut enough. Sooooo, does the motor shaft length match the transom height?

Post a ground level pic showing the AV plate in relation to the keel.
 

LaqueRatt

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Yes the wood replacement seems a little crude to me and don't really like it. I had no idea it might have been done to accomodate the motor. I was thinking somebody had just tried to replicate the factory cut. It appears to be treated lumber which I think may not be the material of choice either. Planning to do something better, but don't really know what to do. I can surely do a better job, but no clue how it should be done.

You're also probably correct about the trim. It was likely off. There is just a rod on a tab that kind of dangles when not engaged. Been having trouble with it due to the reverse lockout lever being missing causing the motor to violently jump forward if not very careful in reverse. I now have the missing lever, but the trim rod I think is bent. That's my next project to get all that working correctly.

Attaching pics of the motors on the boat. The McCulloch is on a different boat, 14" AlumaCraft, but it's all I got at the moment. It should give you some idea. I tell you what the Aluma with the Mickey motor made for a wild ride. Almost scary.
 

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JimS123

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To judge dimensions you need to take a picture from the back, with the camera level with the keel and AV plate. The proper position is so that both are level +- an inch or so. Higher to have better speed and lower to prevent ventilation.


Your pics at that angle may be deceiving, but it sure looks like the McCulloch is a long shaft motor on a short shaft boat. The 'Rude looks too low as well, but it's really hard to tell.

The dimension from the top of the transom to the keel should be 15-16" for a short shaft motor, and 5" more for a long shaft. Transoms should be made out of marine plywood, with layers built up to a total thickness of about 2". Never use PT wood on an aluminum boat. The PT chemicals are not compatible with aluminum.

Don't ever run an outboard without the trim rod installed. A missing one can easily be made from threaded rod and a couple of nuts. Measure your transom height with a tape measure and that will tell you if the PO cut it right. Measure the distance from the transom clamp assembly to the AV plate and that will tell you whether you have a short of long shaft motor.
 

LaqueRatt

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When temps get back above zero I'll get a better picture. Pretty sure both motors are shorties, but they are not exactly the same length. Fairly close though. A long shaft has a spacer right? I got the Mickey motor inside on the stand. Let me go get a measurement off of it. OK, it's 16" from top of plate to where the top of the transom would be.
 

jimmbo

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When temps get back above zero I'll get a better picture. Pretty sure both motors are shorties, but they are not exactly the same length. Fairly close though. A long shaft has a spacer right? I got the Mickey motor inside on the stand. Let me go get a measurement off of it. OK, it's 16" from top of plate to where the top of the transom would be.
The Evinrude is definitely a short shaft.
 

LaqueRatt

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Here's some better pics of the Fastwin sitting on the MirroCraft. Since I'm probably going to replace the wood on the transom, I should be able to position the motor where ever I want it. I'm thinking the motor should be raised up a bit. Am I thinking right? Is the AC plate the piece that is a little below the hull? The higher bump out I think is for the water pump. Correct me if I got it wrong.
 

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JimS123

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Yes, the motor kis too lolw.

When you replace the wood, design it so the top of the transom is 15" above the bottom of the boat.

Refer to the picture in post #36
 
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