Stereo installation

[rickdb1boat]

Hey Guys,<br /><br />I want to put a Am/FM/CD player in my pontoon boat to replace the old radio/cassette player. I tried putting a new Alpine car stereo in there today(2nd one) and it gets REAL hot and pops an internal breaker until it cools off and resets itself. Then it plays again until it heats up and trips the breaker again. Now I know what you all think about car stereos in boats, but, I was wondering if this was normal for a car stereo to get that hot. Are Marine stereos different in some way, other than offering more protection against the elements? In the instructions, it says to ground to the chassis of the car. Is that where the problem lies? In the past on my older boats, I would just buy a cheapie radio/cassette from Walmart and all was well. I'm not sure about the newer ones with all the electronic gismos that create alot of heat. This one even had a heat sink on the back end. Any ideas??? What to get?? Why so hot??<br /><br />BTW- I tried various combinations of power and grounds that were clean and good and no dice..The only thing I did not try is running a ground wire directly from the battery ground to the ground on the stereo..<br /><br />Thanks,

 

[rc581]

Re: Stereo installation

check your info sheet that came with the radio. u may have a speaker problem. u need to check to see if the ohms on your speakers match what the radio calls for.wrong speakers can cause that problem, and may even blow out the radio outputs.<br />hope that helps u some.....bob

 

[rickdb1boat]

Re: Stereo installation

Thanks for the reply. The instuctions say for 4-8 Ohm speakers. I have 8 Ohm matched speakers(4). Not ones that came with the stereo, but they are all the same. Let me add that I was not able at the time to wire one of the speakers up. Got 3 out of 4 done with what time I had. Would that make a difference if one was not hooked up??

 

[rc581]

Re: Stereo installation

sorry, i dont know the answer to that one for sure, but very possible, also your speakers have a positive and a negative hookup. on cheap radios i dont think it matters, but on the better units it most certainly does. other than that, just make sure you have a good positive 12v, and a good ground, and that should be it. sorry i dont have any other ideas.good luck...bob

 

[rickdb1boat]

Re: Stereo installation

^

 

[raymondmoyer]

Re: Stereo installation

Hello sir. What model alpine ? Something definately doesn't sound right. Having the fourth speaker wired should make no difference except to make it hotter. Have you tried with just one speaker connected ? Does it do the same thing. A loose or corroded ground can lead to overheating also. I would try to wire one speaker and ground directly to the battery for a test to see if it does the same thing. Let me know what ya find out. I'm new to the boat world, but I own a car stereo shop.

 

[reneauew]

Re: Stereo installation

I don't believe this is a speaker issue, sounds more like a power problem. Car stereos also use a chassis ground which is seperate from the wiring coming out of the unit. Try running a seperate ground line from the battery to the chassis of the unit. Use at least the same gauge wire that the stereo pigtail has. Hope this helps.

 

[Boatin Bob]

Re: Stereo installation

I suspect you have a problem with the head unit. There is no problem putting a car deck in a boat except you don't have the car chassis gnd for the speakers so each speaker needs 2 wires. Unless you have a speaker with a dead short which would cause the amp to over drive the signal I think you have a head problem. I have 2 car stereo's in my 35 cruiser and neither of them have chassis ground, only the black wire in the harness goes to ground. Can you do a bench test at home with a 12v battery and a couple of speakers to eliminate the boat/wiring as being a problem?

 

[rickdb1boat]

Re: Stereo installation

Thanks, guys. This one has me baffled. I have cleaned all the grounds and it still gets so hot it shuts down. I was wondering about having to ground the stereo itself. I thought that may do the trick, but same thing happened. The 2 things I have not tried is running a ground directly from the battery to the chassis and or running directly from the battery, although I have run it to the main fuse board feed, which should be the same as running it directly from the battery. All new wire and connections from the battery to the fuse block, too. I'm pulling my hair out over this one. Never had a problem before with installations. I thought it might be a heat issue, but heck, a car gets twice as hot inside as a boat does and they still wotk fine. I'm missing something here, I just don't know what...

 

[rickdb1boat]

Re: Stereo installation

Thanks for the reply, Bob. This particular stereo has a ground wire, a hot wire to a continuous hot supply for back-up, another hot wire for a switched toggle, 2 wires each for each speaker( Not a ground and a hot, but 2 wires individually going to each speaker for a total of 8 wires for the 4 speakers) and of course, the usual power antenna wires. Does this help?? Could it be that I need to use just one of the wires and a ground wire from the battery to the speakers?? For example, run the positive speaker wire from the stereo to the positive on the speaker and then run a ground from the battery to the negative terminal and forget the negative wire coming from the stereo??

 

[kameika]

Re: Stereo installation

Hmm.. I just installed a Clairon marine radio in my Larson. Quick notes:<br /><br />1. On each speaker pair, put an ohm meter across the leads, and ensure you have 4-8 ohms, no more no less. <br /><br />2. Silly statement: Ensure each of the four speakers are wired into their respective pair. That is, ensure the wiring to each speaker is independent from the other speakers. Done improperly, it is possible to wire speakers in parallel (~2 ohms impedance.. Bad.)<br /><br />3. With your DMM, ensure you do not have some bizarre ground fault: Put the red lead of your DMM onto the GROUND WIRE of your power harness (from the battery.) Put the BLACK lead of your DMM onto the SHIELD of your ANTENNA CABLE. You should read 0 VOLTS (or nearly so.)<br /><br />4. Remove your "continuous supply" wire from the power supply and retest with HOT wire only. Next, Remove your HOT wire, and only connect the continuous supply wire alone.<br /><br />5. DO NOT directly connect the negative speaker wire from the stereo to the battery. At best, it is a band-aid; at worst, it'll damage something.<br /><br />6. Finally, subtract all speakers, run your stereo. If all works, begin adding one speaker at a time; retesting subsequently.<br /><br />You invested in a very high quality stereo. If it turns out to be the power head, I'd be surprised. It's likely there is a wiring gremlin..<br /><br />(Ten years in Electrical Engineering suggests -- "check wiring gremlins first." )<br /><br />Ken

 

[rickdb1boat]

Re: Stereo installation

Thans, Ken. Will follow your advice and do the checks. About the grounding of the speakers, what I was referring to, was not putting the ground wire from the battery to the stereo negative feed wire, but to the speaker itself and the positive wire from the stereo to the positive side of the speaker and not wire the stereo negative feed wire at all. I know that's a long shot, but like I said, this is crazy!!! I have 2 greens, 2 grays,2 violets and 2 others that I can't recall right now. I'm used to the old style of running a common ground wire to each speaker and then one wire from the stereo to each speaker. Like I said before, this is the second stereo I have tried. Took the first one back because I thought it was defective. No dice!!

 

[Xcusme]

Re: Stereo installation

Rick,<br />A few more things to look at.<br /><br />Disconnect your speaker wiring at each speaker and from the radio's wiring harness. Put your test meter on DC voltage and with the RED meter lead on battery positive, test each speaker wire pair at the radio for voltage, there should be no reading. If you DO see voltage, this would indicate that one or more speaker wires are grounded, and that's bad. Clear the grounds and continue.<br /><br />Next, swap your meter leads. Place the Black meter lead on battery Negative. Again meter each speaker lead (using the Red meter lead) at the radio end, looking for voltage. If you DO see voltage, this indicates that one or more speaker leads are connected to battery positive, again this is bad, find short to battery and clear.You should read no voltage on any speaker lead in this test.<br /> <br />Next, switch your meter to read Ohms (resistance). With the speaker wires still disconnected at the speakers and radio, meter each speakers 'pairs' at the radio, you should not see any continunity(they should show 'open circuit' between the speaker pairs. If you DO see a reading, this means that the speaker pair is 'shorted', find and clear (open the short circuit) before proceding.<br /><br />Last step.<br />Place meter in Ohms (resistance) test mode.<br />At the speaker end, connect both speaker wires.<br />At the radio end, meter each speaker pair. You should see a resistance reading. The meter will show the total resistance for each pair of wires. The lower the reading the better. A high resistance reading would indicate a bad connection or perhaps corrosion within the wire itself. Replace as needed. All pairs should show only a few Ohms of resistance. Longer wiring runs will show a bit more resistance, shorter runs less resistance.<br /><br />The above tests will verify that your speaker wires are:<br />1. Each speaker pair is not shorted.<br />2. Each speaker wire is not connected to ground<br />3. Each speaker wire in not connected to the battery.<br />4. Each speaker wire is not broken or have high resistance due to corrosion.<br /><br />Lastly, test the speakers themselves.<br />Meter on Ohms.<br />Place Black meter lead on metal housing of speaker. Place Red meter on speaker terminals, first one then the other. You should not have any reading. If you DO see a resistance reading, this means the speaker windings are internally shorted/connected to the speaker case. If the speaker case is connected to a metal ground, there's your short circuit. The radio's amp will see this as a short to ground on that channel, and that's bad.<br />Meter the speaker terminals, Black meter lead to one, Red meter lead to the other. You should read the resistance of the speaker coil. A high reading means high internal speaker coil resistance, a zero reading means possibly a shorted speaker coil.

 

[Boatin Bob]

Re: Stereo installation

Rick...these are all good tests and methods to try and narrow the problem down, just re-read your first post again and it says "I tried putting a new Alpine car stereo in there today(2nd one)" What happened to the first one? do you mean this is the 2nd new one? Also when the breaker goes are you just listening to the radio or are you playing a CD? I still think the bench test method will be the easiest way to eliminate the boat/wiring, all you need is a 12v battery, some wire and a couple of speakers to test the unit out quickly.

 

[TwoBallScrewBall]

Re: Stereo installation

If this is the second unit with the same problem, then follow Xcusme's diagnostics to the letter and you will find the problem. It's gotta be a short in the wiring somewhere. <br /><br />If it's an alpine with the V-drive amp in it (60w X 4) then they DO get hot, but it should not get hot enough to shut down, ever. I have a V-Drive Alpine in my truck, I love it. The faceplate gets noticably warm, but I've never had it shut down.

 

[rickdb1boat]

Re: Stereo installation

Bob first:<br /><br />"On each speaker pair, put an ohm meter across the leads, and ensure you have 4-8 ohms, no more no less". Do you mean each speaker or pairs of speakers??<br /><br /><br />BassBuff,<br /><br />Did that to no avail...<br /><br /><br />Boatin Bob,<br /><br />Did the bench test on the speakers and it worked fine, but did get hot again and quit.<br /><br /><br />Ken-Red Bank,<br /><br />Are you referring to Ohming out one single speaker or crossing between 2 of them? Tried all your other test and it checked out fine.<br /><br /><br />Meter the speaker terminals, Black meter lead to one, Red meter lead to the other. You should read the resistance of the speaker coil. A high reading means high internal speaker coil resistance, a zero reading means possibly a shorted speaker coil.<br /><br />Did that and got full continuity. <br /> <br /><br />ecusme,<br /><br />Once again, this one is a puzzle.<br /><br />"Meter the speaker terminals, Black meter lead to one, Red meter lead to the other. You should read the resistance of the speaker coil. A high reading means high internal speaker coil resistance, a zero reading means possibly a shorted speaker coil".<br /><br />I get total continuity when I Ohm out the terminals one one speaker. whadda ya think?? This happened to all the speakers I tested and they are new. Every other test you described worked out fine. <br /><br /><br />Boatin Bob,<br />Yes, this is the second unit I have had. Took the first one back because I thought it may be a glitch in the radio, but same thing.<br /><br /><br /> <br />Steve,<br /><br />It gets real hot on what appears to be a heat sink on the back. Works about 20 Seconds and you hear a click inside the unit and out it goes until it cools off. And I mean REALLY hot. Can't touch the back of the unit without getting burned.<br /><br />WHEW...

 

[Boatin Bob]

Re: Stereo installation

Well Rick..if you did the bench test and got the same results that rules out any problem the boat may have. If it's a new deck with the same problem what else is common to both (speakers?) Do you hook up both pwr wires (usually a red and orange or yellow) and the gnd and 2 sets of spkr?

 

[TwoBallScrewBall]

Re: Stereo installation

Are you getting sound out of the speakers before it shuts off? You shoudl definitely not have total continuity from the speakers. This is a silly question, but are you sure you're not attaching both wires to the same terminal on the speaker? Most speakers have 4 terminals, two positive and two negative. You should have at LEAST 4 ohms on the speakers, total continuity would be no different than just taking the speaker wires and shorting them together, and will definitely cause what you are experiencing.

 

[rickdb1boat]

Re: Stereo installation

UPDATE- Took the Alpine back again and got a pioneer. Been playing for hours and works like a champ. Maybe they had a bad bunch or something. They could not even understand why, but when I was there, another man was bringing his Alpine back for service, too. I'm not sure what his problem was, but I sure can take an educated guess at this point! Anyway, I would like to take the time to thank everyone who helped out and remind everyone that this is what it's all about. People trying to help others... Thanks again and I still don't understand some of the readings I was getting, but I do know this unit works. Once again, thanks for taking the time to respond, as I was about to lose my mind over a SIMPLE stereo installation ...

 

[Boatin Bob]

Re: Stereo installation

Good stuff Rick, now you can out and enjoy your tunes! Hopefully we all picked up a little something from this thread!