Strange Bogging / Hesitation Issue with Evinrude 150XP V6 Outboard

wespants

Seaman
Joined
Dec 10, 2003
Messages
50
No Title

Finally had a chance to do some more work on the motor. I studied the timing advance lever situation again, and sprayed it heavily with PB Blaster all the way around then with PB White Lithium Grease. I disconnected it from the shifter lever that pulls it and worked it back and forth a lot. It is more free than it was, but it doesn't just freely flop back and forth. Hard to describe the effort required, but it would not fall back and forth if tilting the motor but can easily be moved with your pinky finger. Anyway, the shifter lever should exert enough force but I don't think it's properly transferring the force to it because of the sloppy linkage. When the linkage rolls down to a certain position (it has ball joints on either end), it doesn't allow for enough travel. I used a cable tie around the ball to limit the linkage rolling down out of position and that seemed to help a lot Including a couple of pics to show this, the first without and second with the cable tie.

Ran the boat Saturday and did the 1 gallon of concentrated Seafoam "dunk". It jumps up on plane well and runs great at WOT. No bogging during acceleration at all. I could run maybe 75% throttle and up no problem, crusing around 35-36mph on GPS, topping out in the mid '40s. But again, if I backed off and tried to run mid throttle (high '20s, low '30s MPH - still broken tach) I would get the occasional rougher running (missing?) and sort of slow surging in RPMs. This surging I'm describing is cycling from lower to higher RPM every second or so, with probably a 100-200RPM variance from high to low. It's subtle, but you can "feel" it in your feet, and sometimes when it does the missing thing you'll lose some speed and can hear the engine change.

It was worse just after the dunk, but that cleared up after a few and it was probably a little better overall - almost perfect. I didn't have time to put the new plugs in but plan to do that Friday. When I loaded on the trailer, it DID go back to the whole not wanting to spool up unless I pushed the choke, but just one little tap and I was on the bump stop. This is a tremendous improvement from winching the whole way up, but there is still something not QUITE right. Perhaps it is a little lean as ercoa suggest.

To try and verify, I'm going to swap the plugs and take a gamble on one more outing. This time, when the surging or hesitation happens out on the water (if it happens) I'll tap the choke and see if it clears it up. Then I'll be pulling the carbs, and the jets. I'm hoping it won't come to that, but re-doing this steps seems the correct advice should I have the issue repeat again with the new plugs and freshly Seafoamed engine.

I noticed that I do seem to have a leak in the lower end of the motor, on the side below the pistons. I'm getting some fuel/oil running into the bottom of the cowl and down the shaft on the port side. This is sort of confirmation to me of the leak that the last mechanic that saw it said I had. Basically it's a gasket that would have to be replaced by disassembling the motor. I think until it comes to that it's just a nuisance, right? Not my performance issue is it? And it's not likely to be the source of any imminent, expensive, catastrophic failure?
 

Attachments

  • photo227796.jpg
    photo227796.jpg
    255.1 KB · Views: 1
  • photo227797.jpg
    photo227797.jpg
    269.6 KB · Views: 1

1983 ercoa 21'

Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Jan 12, 2014
Messages
632
Does it leak while running?
if it's anywhere before the point of ignition it could be a vac leak causing the motor to suck air which will result in a lean condition.
 

wespants

Seaman
Joined
Dec 10, 2003
Messages
50
The mechanic told me it was on the lower end of the motor, on the backside of the piston. Now that you mention it, I suppose that this is the mix that gets sucked into the cylinder on the next cycle. This could indeed be creating a vacuum leak, and then two cycles later a fuel/oil leak as the piston is coming down. The mechanic said that the vacuum gauge he put on the engine showed it was "good". Maybe it could be better?
 

wespants

Seaman
Joined
Dec 10, 2003
Messages
50
I was just thinking what I need to do is pull the lower portion of the cowl off, and clean everything good, the. Run it on the hose and see what's up. I will do that this weekend.
 

wespants

Seaman
Joined
Dec 10, 2003
Messages
50
If this is the problem, the powerhead has to come off, right? At this point it might as well be a rebuild?
 

wespants

Seaman
Joined
Dec 10, 2003
Messages
50
Once I have it cleaned up and running in a hose, I may spray some carb cleaner around there to search for a vacuum leak by listening for higher RPM. I did it in the past with WD-40 and found nothing, but I didn't have that lower cowl off.
 

wespants

Seaman
Joined
Dec 10, 2003
Messages
50
No Title

Well, Friday I did a little bit more investigation. With the engine running on the hose, I looked carefully all around the bottom of the powerhead for leaks. I could never find where the dark substance that runs down the leg was coming from. However, after running it for a little while Friday on the hose and a couple hours Saturday at the lake, I haven't seen it running down the leg again. I know, because I have repainted the motor and it would be obvious.

Perhaps there was a fuel leak cured replacing all the lines?

Anyway, I did see water dripping out of the engine in a couple of places. I would get a drop every few seconds or so from the large flat plate bolted vertically in between the rows of cylinders on the back. It was also coming from somewhere in the front of the engine below the carburetors, but I could not tell where. Also, down at the foot, water was coming out from under these two square things on either side. Perhaps this is normal, I don't know. This is shown in the photo.

I tried spraying carb cleaner all around the bottom of the powerhead with it running to see if I could hear a change in RPM and detect a vacuum leak. I never heard anything, but even spraying the carb cleaner into the air box on the front didn't get a result so I don't know that I would've noticed anything.

Anyway, while I had the engine warm, I pulled the plugs. They were all black and shiny. None were soaking wet, and none were dry, they all looked the same. I am thinking this means that the carburetors are all performing equally. So if I have a lean issue, I am thinking it is "global" in terms of some kind of vacuum leak. While I was at it, I check the compression on number one cylinder. It was the same as it was a few months ago, around 70. I was hoping it had improved, but no luck. I gapped and installed a new set of plugs.

So Saturday morning I go to the lake. It starts and idles great. At the start of the day, it would do a little bit of that and undulating in the mid RPM range, But at 80% throttle and above it was fine. By the end of the day, it was running seemingly perfect and say 60% throttle and above. If I would back it down to where it would just barely stay on plane, I would get a little bit of that undulating. You cannot really hear a change in our video, but you could feel yet in terms of the boat's movement through the water. When it would exhibit this, pushing the choke seemed to help, but it also increased the RPM which naturally helps so I'm not sure what to think about that.

I was about to call it good enough when it bogged down and died on me leaving the last fishing hole and heading for the dock. I restarted and tried again, but as I would advance the throttle it would bog to the point of quitting. So then I restarted and as advanced the throttle push the choke and women ahead and got on plane and ran fine, except for the undulating when I would come off of wide-open throttle. Again, advancing the throttle to push on to the trailer required a bump up the choke.

So what do you guys think? Is there a vacuum leak I have not found, or do I need to tear the carburetors back down? Is there another good method to search for a vacuum leak? And finally, is this water that I'm seeing an urgent problem?

Thanks again for any advice!
 

Attachments

  • photo228396.jpg
    photo228396.jpg
    194.2 KB · Views: 3

wespants

Seaman
Joined
Dec 10, 2003
Messages
50
Update: right after submitting the post above, I went to put the cover on the boat and discovered a little bit of oily substance running down the front (toward the bow) part of the leg of the motor. It is coming from somewhere under the counseling, I guess below where the carburetors are. I know there is a line in the bottom of the airbox to collect any unburned fuel in it, but I have been traced it to see where it goes. I assume it is supposed to be recycled, but maybe it has come loose and that's what it is. Wishful thinking perhaps?
 

1983 ercoa 21'

Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Jan 12, 2014
Messages
632
Hitting the choke and the motor picking up means a lean conditions in the form of carb issue or a vac leak.

check the line from air box to the block sounds like the fuel dumped from carbs when tilted up isn't making it's way back to the block and leaking.

you have to use good carb cleaner like chemtool the cheap stuff don't work!
 

wespants

Seaman
Joined
Dec 10, 2003
Messages
50
Just wanted to post a sort of "closure" to this thread. I never could solve this issue. As mentioned it seemed to be a lean condition but I could never find the cause. At one point I was told I had a leak a the crankcase gasket, and my worst fear is that it was sucking in air causing it to run lean, but I'm not sure if that was the case or it that even makes sense.

Anyway, I sold the motor, with full disclosure, for a fair price. Located a boat with a 140 V4 Johnson (crossflow), and bought the whole rig to get the motor. While I was swapping motors I found some rotten wood in the transom, so I hollowed it our and poured a new one Seacast. New motor runs good but I lost a few MPH top end (44 to 35) despite it being rated for only 10 less HP. However I may be over propped as I have no tach working yet.

Anyway I'm about to start another thread about an idling issue with the V4, but wanted to say again thanks for all the advice on this one and tell anyone following the thread looking for the solution that I'm sorry I could never get an answer to the issue.
 
Top