Strange Electrical Problem

i386

Captain
Joined
Aug 24, 2004
Messages
3,548
Lately some of my lights have been flickering at random intervals. Sometimes they go out for a few minutes and come back on by themselves.

It doesn't always affect the same circuit in my house. Well, there's one that it consistently affects but there's one or two more that may go out with it.

So started reading about people having a "loose neutral".

I removed the cover off my panel and checked the neutral bus. Everything was tight. I also poked at all the neutral wires with a long wooden dowel. I was not able to get any lights to even flicker.

A little while later some lights flickered and went out. I went downstairs with my meter. Mind you, we have 2 hot legs and one neutral coming from the meter into the main breaker. I took my measurement from the bit of exposed wire where they are terminated into the main breaker. Again, from the meter side of the main breaker where the mains come in. I just want to be real clear about that. I'm in my panel (a good 20 feet from the meter), but I'm probing the wire BEFORE it goes into my main breaker. Anyway, measuring VAC I had 126VAC on one "hot leg" and nothing on the other hot leg. ** Earlier I had 126VAC on both hot legs.

So I call the utility company last night. It was late on a Sunday night so I get forwarded to an after hours dispatcher. I explain the problem to him. He says yea, that's probably gonna be your main breaker going out. So I repeat it back to him very slowly, made sure he understood where I was taking my measurement from. He said well I probably better send someone out.

The guy shows up about 15 mins. later. The first thing he does is pull the cover on meter box and take a reading. Of course the symptom never showed itself the whole time here was there. The reading outside was good. He says everything looks good in there. I ask him to humor me and come in and look at my panel and where I was taking my measurement from. He agreed that where I was measuring from should get 120VAC on both legs regardless of the condition of the main breaker.

He decides to go back out, pull the meter cover and the meter itself. He then borrows my 1/2" socket and proceeds to tighten all the lugs in the meter. Actually he tightens my side inside the meter. There are also 3 lugs where the line coming from the transformer terminate but he didn't tighten those. He didn't admit to them being loose, but they tightened down a lot more than he expected they would.

He said he really didn't know what was causing the problem, but if it happens again to call back. He never came right out and said the problem was on "his end", but he didn't say it was on mine.

Any thoughts on this one?
 

SS MAYFLOAT

Admiral
Joined
May 17, 2001
Messages
6,372
Re: Strange Electrical Problem

The lines in/out of the meter base, did they show any signs of getting hot? Usually a loose wire in a terminal block will show signs of being heated. Then its possible that there wasn't enough amp load to cause heating, but just a bad connection.

I think it is a wait and see if tightening the main lugs took care of the problem. In the past, I have encountered where aluminum wire and copper wire at the service entrance on the mast has caused this problem also.
 

i386

Captain
Joined
Aug 24, 2004
Messages
3,548
Re: Strange Electrical Problem

The lines in/out of the meter base, did they show any signs of getting hot? Usually a loose wire in a terminal block will show signs of being heated. Then its possible that there wasn't enough amp load to cause heating, but just a bad connection.

I think it is a wait and see if tightening the main lugs took care of the problem. In the past, I have encountered where aluminum wire and copper wire at the service entrance on the mast has caused this problem also.

Nope, no signs of anything getting hot. Lights flicker or go out. Never seems to go "high" which is what a loose neutral would do right?

Does everyone agree that it can't be my main breaker or anything else in the panel?

A couple hours after the guy left the lights flickered a little once. Not nearly as bad as before. I don't think it's fixed.
 

SS MAYFLOAT

Admiral
Joined
May 17, 2001
Messages
6,372
Re: Strange Electrical Problem

Intermittent stuff down right sucks! Really makes it rough to pin point a problem.

This is a suggestion. Can you flip flop the breaker with another good circuit to see if the problem moves? Its is very possible that you have a breaker that is going faulty. Also some of the snap in type breakers can have problems where they make contact with the buss bars in the panel..

I do agree that your main should be fine. If it was the main, you would have problems with that leg throughout the house. Clothes dryer cycles would be much longer also.

May need to have your ground and neutral megg'd out to make sure there is good continutiy, but I don't think this is your problem as it would effect everything in you house.
 
Last edited:

joed

Lieutenant Junior Grade
Joined
Sep 28, 2002
Messages
1,135
Re: Strange Electrical Problem

The problem is definitely on the POCO side. He tightened one of the things that could be the problem. It could also be the upper metter connections, the weather head connections or the connection at the transformer.

If it happens again call them back.

Syptoms of a loose neutral are different. Some light will be dimming but other will be going brighter.
 

i386

Captain
Joined
Aug 24, 2004
Messages
3,548
Re: Strange Electrical Problem

If I turn off all 2-wire breakers, that should eliminate the possibility of any "cross feeding". Then if I loose a main leg, all circuits on that side of the panel should be dead right?

Still having a hard time understanding how I can measure no voltage on a leg before the main breaker and that be caused by a problem on my side.
 

twkjr 1250

Petty Officer 2nd Class
Joined
Mar 6, 2009
Messages
177
Re: Strange Electrical Problem

im pretty sure the elect. goes through the meter before it hits the house maybe you have a faulty meter or meter box something to consider unless im wrong
 

SS MAYFLOAT

Admiral
Joined
May 17, 2001
Messages
6,372
Re: Strange Electrical Problem

If I turn off all 2-wire breakers, that should eliminate the possibility of any "cross feeding". Then if I loose a main leg, all circuits on that side of the panel should be dead right?

Right, that would prevent cross feeding or backfeeding the line. What voltage do you get at the input of your main breaker with the double pole breakers off? Should be 230/240. IF not then there is a problem with one of the incoming lines.
 

i386

Captain
Joined
Aug 24, 2004
Messages
3,548
Re: Strange Electrical Problem

I'm going to go home at lunch (11:30AM EST) and turn off those 2 wire breakers. I'll feel better with those off. I will take some more measurements then.

Last night when things were normal I got:

L1 to Neutral = 120v
L2 to Neutral = 120v
L1 to L2 = 240v

When some of the lights went out and stayed out for a few mins I got:

L1 to Neutral = 120v
L2 to Neutral = 0v
L1 to L2 I didn't measure

In both instances I probed at the neutral bus and at the wire itself right before it terminates into the main breaker.
 

Bob_VT

Moderator & Unofficial iBoats Historian
Staff member
Joined
May 19, 2001
Messages
26,065
Re: Strange Electrical Problem

It might be a transformer problem on the pole. Call and raise hell about it. I had a similar problem and lost one leg of the feed..... it turned out to be the transformer so they replaced it..... OH WAIT that did not fix it then the electric company discovered that their crimp connection in the feed to my house was faulty..... They replaced that too........ all of the work was done in the dead of winter, during a snow storm and at night :eek:
 

SS MAYFLOAT

Admiral
Joined
May 17, 2001
Messages
6,372
Re: Strange Electrical Problem

I agree with Bob, it has to be the service from the pole to your panel. Usually (not always) when a leg drops on a transformer it not always comes back on line. Extreme temp swings this year can cause some expansion/contraction issues on connectors.

If you don't get it fixed today and it does it tonight. Go outside and look at the wires by the weather head and transformer. It should arc when it makes contact again. Sometimes this works but not always.
 

i386

Captain
Joined
Aug 24, 2004
Messages
3,548
Re: Strange Electrical Problem

I'm home for lunch. I can tell the power has been off.

I called the POCO and got the same guy as last night. Again he's saying it's my main breaker. Again, I explained where I measured and that the problem is intermittent. The symptom did not show itself while the guy was on-site last night. He's reluctantly sending someone out again.

I'm expecting him to scratch his but, maybe spit, and tell me yeap, assgonna problee gonna ber yer main breaker right thar.:rolleyes:

BTW, I switched off all the 2 wire breakers just to feel better about leaving the house.
 

i386

Captain
Joined
Aug 24, 2004
Messages
3,548
Re: Strange Electrical Problem

Here's how I measure...

***On the 2nd pic I moved the red lead off the wire a bit to make it read zero volts to simulate what I saw last night.
 

Attachments

  • voltage.jpg
    voltage.jpg
    54.6 KB · Views: 0
  • novoltage.jpg
    novoltage.jpg
    48.3 KB · Views: 0

levittownnick

Senior Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Jul 2, 2003
Messages
789
Re: Strange Electrical Problem

I'm sure that your neutral is good. Your main breaker is also good. I wouldn't worry about your 2 pole circuits "back-feeding, that ain't the problem either. Somewhere between your meter output and the supply to your house is an intermittant connection. It could be the Transformer, in which case any other service on that line will have the same problem (ask your neighbor), or a splice/crimp connection as others have mentioned. From your description of the measurements that you made, I'm sure you have done all that you can do except to dog your power company. Some how, they always want to blame the customer. Get on them.

Good luck.
 

i386

Captain
Joined
Aug 24, 2004
Messages
3,548
Re: Strange Electrical Problem

I wouldn't put it past 'em Bob.:D
 

i386

Captain
Joined
Aug 24, 2004
Messages
3,548
Re: Strange Electrical Problem

Fixed (I hope). The guy said he thought one of the crimps was bad up at the transformer. He cut a piece out and crimped a new one in. I caught up with my next door neighbor and he had been having the same problem. He had assumed it was a problem with his house wiring.

I told the tech to call his dispatcher and tell him I wasn't crazy!:p
 

xtraham

Lieutenant
Joined
Jul 20, 2006
Messages
1,425
Re: Strange Electrical Problem

I had the same problem for about a year, the electric would blink just enough so that we had to reset our digital clocks, the electric co thought I was nuts as it would never happen when a repair person came out. Low and behold last summer the electric went completely out, I called and they sent a guy out, he said it was a loose crimp. He made a new connection and "boom" a trans former blew about 2 doors down, they replace the transformer and I've had no problems since.
 

rwise

Captain
Joined
Jul 5, 2001
Messages
3,205
Re: Strange Electrical Problem

I have seen the loose splice cause this, I have also seen the loose ground cause this. Are any of your neighbors affected the same way? I had this problem and just turned off the power and tightened everything and the problem went away, ok it's back and I'll be doing this again! (I am the only one affected so it has to be between the transformer and the light bulb) The power co can put a graph chart at your meter if needed, I have had this done before and someone at the power plant was switching something incorrectly, (I was told they fired him) but on that one I had a power failure at the same time every day!
Oh I see you have it fixed,,,,,never mind:cool:
 

joed

Lieutenant Junior Grade
Joined
Sep 28, 2002
Messages
1,135
Re: Strange Electrical Problem

This problem is more common than you think. I see it all the time on DIY home repair boards.

The problem is definitely on the POCO side. He tightened one of the things that could be the problem. It could also be the upper metter connections, the weather head connections or the connection at the transformer.

If it happens again call them back.

Syptoms of a loose neutral are different. Some light will be dimming but other will be going brighter.
 
Top