Surging Fix or Repower Options Excel 225

[Bandaid]

My 1985 Yamaha 225 excel was having surgung problems when the engine was warm and running over 3500 rpms. I checked all fuel lines, filters and changed out fuel pumps. Still had a problem on the way home with surging. Finally broke down and gave it to a mechanic to look at He found that the upper unit to crankcase seal is leaking and thinks that because of this I have an airleak in that is causing the problem. He felt that in order to get to the seal the whole head has to be broken down and in view of the fact that it is an 1985 motor "who knows what else we will find" He said that if there was a lower unit/camshaft problem that would not be unexpected in an old motor that it could run into the $2000-4000 range and was not sure it is worth it. He said that if the computer went on the motor or anything else I'd be dumping money into a really old motor with outdated technology. <br /><br />I then asked about choices regarding re-power options Yamaha 4 stroke F250 vs. E-Tec. To him it was a no brainer for two major reasons. First re-sale on the Yamaha will be 5x that of the E-Tec five years from now. Second, the E-tec has had cold weather issues and does not give the reliability of the Yammy 4 stroke.<br /><br />Yammy is currently offering an additional 3 year warranty for free if I can get the re-power done by Mid March. I found the F250 for 13,500 which is a great deal. <br /><br />Finally what can I ask for the Excel. It is a really clean motor that needs the aformentioned work done. <br /><br />As always, I appreciate any advice offered <br />Charlie

 

[Ray Neudecker]

Re: Surging Fix or Repower Options Excel 225

Know of no reason the motor would have to be broken down to relace this seal. The power head would have to be pulled to do so. These motors were built during the model years of 1987,1988 and 1989.<br /> The problem most often is caused by a fuel restriction. Remove the engine mounted filter and bypass it as well as the quick disconnect fuel connector. Rebuild the carbs and 99 percent of the time the problem will be cured. Replace the needles and carb gaskets while going through the carbs. Normally the lower seal if leaking will cause an idle problem not the problem you are describing.<br /> These motors are much stronger than the replacement engines you are considering as a replacement.<br /> The electronics are almost bullet proof. I have a pile of them where we have converted for race use and will sale and guarantee for very little.<br /> Sounds like you are getting a sales pitch rather than a knowledge able mechanic.

 

[Bandaid]

Re: Surging Fix or Repower Options Excel 225

Ray,<br />In really appreciate your advice. I guess I can try to rebuild the carbs and hope for the best. It would be great if it worked. The compression numbers in parallel cylinders is OK though top to botton ranges from 125 to 140. I dont know if this is a negative bellweather. Can the base plate seal be ignored for a while or is it something that needs to be repaired which brings me back to the original question regarding if it is worth investing in the repair and anything else that may be found during the teardown. I would love to pick your brain a bit and if you are OK with providing a phone contact send it to my email address CGraffeo@gmail.com If not I completely understand and thank you again for the advice. <br /><br />I had already taken previous advice you offered and pulled the inline filters....added a good fuel/water seperator...checked lines from the tank etc. <br /><br />During my latest trip out the motor ran fine until it was time to come home after being out about 3 hours running some and trolling some. At 3500= RPM's I lost lots of power and had to muddle home at 2000-2500 in strong seas which was NO fun. <br /><br />The mechanic wants 200.00 to rebuild the carbs. <br /><br />Finally, if I do decide to re-power are you a fan of the 4-stroke 250 Yammy. Looks like they are retailing for 13,500 plus all the add-ons (prop,cable,gauge,keyswitch etc. <br /><br />Once again thanks for all of the advice.<br />Charlie

 

[Ray Neudecker]

Re: Surging Fix or Repower Options Excel 225

That is about what the compression levels were new starting at the top and going down. Those engines were very trick with diferent port timing on diferent cylinders and different cc's in each chamber. If the top 2 cylinders were the highest and bottom two the lowest, that is the way it was designed. The price is very reasonable to rebuild the carbs, be sure that includes new bowl gaskets and needles or you will have wasted the money. Those parts will probably add another $120.00 or so to the bill. Let me give you my email address neudecray@hotmail.com to obtain a number to call since I seem to have a horible time with email addresses I can't just click on. Hard to teach us old dogs too many tricks. My expertise is more along the lines of the older motors and high performance than the new breed but most of the people who I have corresponded with have been dissapointed in the performance loss when going the route you are considering. The Excell actually produced about the same at the prop HP as the four cycle 250 and weighs close to 300 lbs less than the engine you are considering.<br /> You will be welcome to call with questions.

 

[Ray Neudecker]

Re: Surging Fix or Repower Options Excel 225

Also you are not giving any symptoms to confirm there is any problem with the seal.

 

[rodbolt]

Re: Surging Fix or Repower Options Excel 225

I am with ray on the seal issue, that and a seal issue wont come and go. if its bad its bad all the time, has anyone ever actually checked the fuel system vacum at the pump intakes while the engine was acting up?<br /> all the symptoms you refer to are indicative of a lack of proper air/fuel mix in the crankcase/cylinders for whatever reason. a faulty TPS can cause the same symtoms as the ign timing will become erratic. all easy to test but must be tested while its acting up.<br /> the F250 is a hoss, the hole shot is incredible for a four stroke but the opereating system is incredibly complex, not sure I like so much complexity on the transom.<br />so far they seem to work ok, get back with me in 4 years or so.