Swing Away and Tongue Weight

[Paul Ryan]

K...I'm not a idot (well some might disagree ) but for the life of me I am having a Duh moment with this thinking.

If you install a swing away and add tongue material, 16", 24" (what ever) Longer....Has the tongue weight just been incressed or decressed?

Well stupid simple. If you make the tongue longer does your tongue weight go up or down?

 

[Knightgang]

Re: Swing Away and Tongue Weight

THe longer the tounge, the lower the weight.

Think of it as a fulcrum and the wheels/axle is the pivot point. The longer the leverage bar (or fulcrum) the less force you have to apply to lift. Therefore, less tounge weight...

 

[Robbabob]

Re: Swing Away and Tongue Weight

I'm not sure. I know you change your CG slightly - you have a pivot point at the wheels holding most of the weight and then you have the tongue to hold the rest. When you move the tongue, you move the CG.

I understand how a cheater-bar makes it easier to turn a wrench, but I don't understand how weight has been removed by going to a longer tongue.

Now I've messed this up for sure

 

[paulspaddle]

Re: Swing Away and Tongue Weight

THe longer the tounge, the lower the weight.

Think of it as a fulcrum and the wheels/axle is the pivot point. The longer the leverage bar (or fulcrum) the less force you have to apply to lift. Therefore, less tounge weight...

I'd go with this.

 

[Knightgang]

Re: Swing Away and Tongue Weight

but I don't understand how weight has been removed by going to a longer tongue.

Now I've messed this up for sure

The overall weight forward of the axle has not changed, but it has been distributed over a greater distance, therefore less weight on the end of the tounge where the tounge weight is measured...

 

[Paul Ryan]

Re: Swing Away and Tongue Weight

The overall weight forward of the axle has not changed, but it has been distributed over a greater distance, therefore less weight on the end of the tounge where the tounge weight is measured...

I see that and agreed...But my darn mind is over thinking this...Can you keep adding length until there is no weight? I dont see that. I see weight always on the end. But if the above is ture then you should be able to add length until weight is netural. I dont see that??? Hate my mind sometimes...lol...

 

[Knightgang]

Re: Swing Away and Tongue Weight

No, you cannot add enough length to get to no weight or neutral weight. Might work in theory, but not real life. Adding tounge length, (Steel) you are adding additional weight, therefore there will always be some weight.

You can more the axle, shifting the weight pertentage forward and rear of the axle and get neutral or zero tounge weight, but it is not recommended.

Adding length to the tounge does reduce the tounge weight, but we are not talking about a great deal of it. You will reach a point where the additional lenght will no longer reduce weight offseting the additional weight of the added steel. In other words, you can only add so much tounge length before you reach a point of diminishing returns. The steel you add for the lenght will be greater than the reduction of the weight on the end of the tounge...

 

[Paul Ryan]

Re: Swing Away and Tongue Weight

No, you cannot add enough length to get to no weight or neutral weight. Might work in theory, but not real life. Adding tounge length, (Steel) you are adding additional weight, therefore there will always be some weight.

You can more the axle, shifting the weight pertentage forward and rear of the axle and get neutral or zero tounge weight, but it is not recommended.

Adding length to the tounge does reduce the tounge weight, but we are not talking about a great deal of it. You will reach a point where the additional lenght will no longer reduce weight offseting the additional weight of the added steel. In other words, you can only add so much tounge length before you reach a point of diminishing returns. The steel you add for the lenght will be greater than the reduction of the weight on the end of the tounge...

"diminishing returns" Thats the word I was looking for... I agree with the moving of the pivot point. But for this topic I was looking at keeping that same....SO...Knowing that adding length will lower the tounge weight you then move the axle (pivot point) backwards to put load back onto tongue.

 

[Knightgang]

Re: Swing Away and Tongue Weight

"diminishing returns" Thats the word I was looking for... I agree with the moving of the pivot point. But for this topic I was looking at keeping that same....SO...Knowing that adding length will lower the tounge weight you then move the axle (pivot point) backwards to put load back onto tongue.

Yes, if needed. I would add the tounge length, then measure the weight and do a test pull before I decided to move the axle back. Depending on how much tounge length is added, you may only need to put the cooler in teh bow instead of the stern to offset the tounge weight reduction...

 

[Paul Ryan]

Re: Swing Away and Tongue Weight

OooOooOoo...I was thinking it would effect the weight % alot more than that. I'm thinking of adding swing away and maybe 24 inches. Got a couple ramps that the extra length would help at.

 

[Knightgang]

Re: Swing Away and Tongue Weight

Paul, unless you are really light on tounge weight now, I bet you will still be okay with only 24" addition... Good luck

 

[Silvertip]

Re: Swing Away and Tongue Weight

Didn't anyone ever use a simple screwdriver to try and pry something? Isn't the job easier with a long screwdriver than a short stubby one? The same thing applies to any lever/fulcrum situation. A long lever provides more power than a short one. It also applies to gear ratios in your tow vehicle. However a long lever needs to move farther than a short one to move/lift the object. But you have more "leverage" with the long one. Basic high school physics.

 

[alumi numb]

Re: Swing Away and Tongue Weight

No, you cannot add enough length to get to no weight or neutral weight. Might work in theory, but not real life. Adding tounge length, (Steel) you are adding additional weight, therefore there will always be some weight.

You can more the axle, shifting the weight pertentage forward and rear of the axle and get neutral or zero tounge weight, but it is not recommended.

Adding length to the tounge does reduce the tounge weight, but we are not talking about a great deal of it. You will reach a point where the additional lenght will no longer reduce weight offseting the additional weight of the added steel. In other words, you can only add so much tounge length before you reach a point of diminishing returns. The steel you add for the lenght will be greater than the reduction of the weight on the end of the tounge...

go along with that one.
the fulcrum should recognize more fore weight and aft still the same.
the added 2' sounds like a perfect spot for the spare tire and/or a box to carry stuff.
just hauled a motorhome on a trailer that was tail heavy, 120 miles at 35 mph max and not fun at all.

 

[jeeperman]

Re: Swing Away and Tongue Weight

K...I'm not a idot (well some might disagree ) but for the life of me I am having a Duh moment with this thinking.

If you install a swing away and add tongue material, 16", 24" (what ever) Longer....Has the tongue weight just been incressed or decressed?

Well stupid simple. If you make the tongue longer does your tongue weight go up or down?

If NOTHING ELSE is changed on the trailer nor where the cargo is on the trailer, then yes the weight of the added material will increase the tongue weight.
In your case all the weight is being added to hitch end of the tongue. So whatever the tongue weight was will be increased by whatever you add.
Same as if you were standing on the ball portion of the coupler or not. The weight on the ball changes.

 

[tbird175]

Re: Swing Away and Tongue Weight

jeeperman - I think that you will find that the additional weight on the hitch end of the tongue will increase by 1/2 the added weight. The axle or fulcrum will absorb the other 1/2 of additional weight. There would be a slight but insignificant change in the cantilever effect of the weight on the opposite side of the axle.

 

[bruceb58]

Re: Swing Away and Tongue Weight

No, you cannot add enough length to get to no weight or neutral weight. Might work in theory, but not real life.

Doesn't work in theory either. Its just a ratio...1/2 1/4 1/1000. It will eventually approach zero but will never get there.

 

[jeeperman]

Re: Swing Away and Tongue Weight

jeeperman - I think that you will find that the additional weight on the hitch end of the tongue will increase by 1/2 the added weight. The axle or fulcrum will absorb the other 1/2 of additional weight.

Depends on where the additional weight is placed on that lever. If it is at the half way point then the additional weight will be divided evenly to each end.
Like I said, if all the additional weight is at a single point on top of the ball end of tongue then all of that additional weight is right there, Same as if your standing on that spot. As you walk down the tongue your weight will be distributed between either end proportionally.

Do you have an extension ladder? lay it out level and collapsed. Put a scale under one end and read the weight. Then extend the ladder out to twice as long as it was and read the weight on one end again. Did it get heavier, lighter or remain the same???
While it is laying there stand on ladder directly above the scale. As you walk to the other end what does the scale read ?? Did it get heavier, lighter or remain the same???

 

[Paul Ryan]

Re: Swing Away and Tongue Weight

If NOTHING ELSE is changed on the trailer nor where the cargo is on the trailer, then yes the weight of the added material will increase the tongue weight.
In your case all the weight is being added to hitch end of the tongue. So whatever the tongue weight was will be increased by whatever you add.
Same as if you were standing on the ball portion of the coupler or not. The weight on the ball changes.

Hmmm...K...

Adding tongue "material" adds weight making the hicth to ball % more (but not by alot).

Adding tongue "length" (lever/pivot) moves boat/trailer weight over a greater distance making hitch to ball % less (but not by allot).

Well we all agree on "Not allot"...

 

[tbird175]

Re: Swing Away and Tongue Weight

Depends on where the additional weight is placed on that lever. If it is at the half way point then the additional weight will be divided evenly to each end.
Like I said, if all the additional weight is at a single point on top of the ball end of tongue then all of that additional weight is right there, Same as if your standing on that spot. As you walk down the tongue your weight will be distributed between either end proportionally.

Do you have an extension ladder? lay it out level and collapsed. Put a scale under one end and read the weight. Then extend the ladder out to twice as long as it was and read the weight on one end again. Did it get heavier, lighter or remain the same???
While it is laying there stand on ladder directly above the scale. As you walk to the other end what does the scale read ?? Did it get heavier, lighter or remain the same???

I stand corrected, I was working on uniform loading conditions.

 

[Knightgang]

Re: Swing Away and Tongue Weight

Hmmm...K...

Adding tongue "material" adds weight making the hicth to ball % more (but not by alot).

Adding tongue "length" (lever/pivot) moves boat/trailer weight over a greater distance making hitch to ball % less (but not by allot).

Well we all agree on "Not allot"...

Yep, not by alot.......