Swing tongue loose and uneven tire wear

[fishrdan]

My trailer tires have uneven wear, feathering on the inside of the left tire and outside of the right tire. While verifying the axle alignment I noticed the swing tongue has play in it, about 3/8 to 1/2" up-down at the ball mount and a bit side to side. Uh Oh... I looked closely at the pin holes for the swing tongue and there is a bit of wear in the holes, enough to allow the swing tongue to move around a bit.

I continued the alignment check by clamping a C clamp into the center of the ball mount (put it where the ball goes) and measured to the leading edge of the bearing buddy, both sides were exactly 189", and 188 15/16" if I pulled the tape hard. I didn't check (but need to) see how the alignment looks if I kick the tongue from side to side. But, even is the tongue is pulling off center by 1/4", I don't think this is going to cause the alignment to be off a significant amount, 1/4" at the wheel yes, but not 1/4" from side-side at the tongue. I wouldn't think.

So besides the axle alignment being off, is there anything else that will cause the tires to wear odd like this, feathered on the left tire's inside and right tire's outside?

I should add, this trailer/tires are fairly new to me as I have only pulled it a couple times. The tires look to be wearing fine besides the feathering, just dry rotted from age and flat spots from sitting for a long time.

Thanks, Dan

 

[Silvertip]

Re: Swing tongue loose and uneven tire wear

Yes. A bent axle, bent spindle, overloaded trailer, any combination of the above or all of the above. Add loose/damaged/misadjusted wheel bearings to the list.

 

[Gary H NC]

Re: Swing tongue loose and uneven tire wear

Agree with Silvertip,
I would start by fixing the play in the tongue hinge,swap the tires to the other side and see if they still wear on the edges.

 

[fishrdan]

Re: Swing tongue loose and uneven tire wear

I don't think I explained the tire wear too well.

• the inside row of tread on the left tire is feathered
• the outside row of tread on the right tire is feathered
• all other sections of tread on both tires look normal.
• both tires are wearing at the same rate, not 1 excessively worn and the other slightly worn.

Yes. A bent axle, bent spindle, overloaded trailer, any combination of the above or all of the above. Add loose/damaged/misadjusted wheel bearings to the list.

-Bent axle, possible (wouldn't this cause the tire wear to mirror each other, outside on both, or inside on both?)
-Bent spindle, possible (wouldn't this cause 1 tire to wear faster than the other?)
-Overloaded, doubt it, but don't know what the PO did. 3500# axle/tires and 2000# boat with no soaked foam. I haven't had the loaded boat/trailer scaled though.
-Bearings are A'OK

I'm not doubting your suggestions ST, just trying to narrow down the problem. From the tire wear pattern it looked to me like the axle is out of alignment to the trailer center line, not squared up, but I verified it's the same measurement to both hubs, dead on in fact, it kind of threw me after seeing how the tires were wearing.

Agree with Silvertip,
I would start by fixing the play in the tongue hinge,swap the tires to the other side and see if they still wear on the edges.

I need to double check the trailer tongue wear and check to see if the axle alignment changes when the tongue is pushed off to either side. After thinking about it for a while, I'm not sure it the small amount of play in the swing tongue will cause the axle to run out of square, but I need to check it to make sure.

The tires are in bad shape, flat spots, dry rot and cracking so I won't be able to swap them side-side. When I took it out (first time) a month ago I wouldn't go faster than 55, tires had a bad hop to them. Not bad enough to make me turn around and head back home, but it had me on edge the whole trip and I was prepared to be changing a tire....

 

[fishrdan]

Re: Swing tongue loose and uneven tire wear

I think I might have figured out my problem,,, and probably didn't give the best description as to exactly what the tire problem is. After googling for a bit I found out that the tires have cupping, not feathering... I can feel the problem while rubbing my hand around the tire in 1 direction, not from side to side. It's feathered (for lack of a better term) around the tire, but not across the tread which is the definition of feathering from everything I looked at. One of the tires has bad cups or scallops in the edge of the tire tread.

One of the reasons for cupping is out of balance tires, that or bad suspension parts, bearings, springs, bushings... I drove 150 miles with the tires hopping so I'm guessing that's what caused the tires to wear.

 

[bruceb58]

Re: Swing tongue loose and uneven tire wear

Improper toe angle could also cause this. A faulty tire that has a belt slipped inside. Could be a combination of problems...not just one.

How old are the tires? Were they ever balanced?

 

[fishrdan]

Re: Swing tongue loose and uneven tire wear

How old are the tires? Were they ever balanced?

2003

Ohhhh yeah, they need to be replaced.

When I picked up the boat they road fine, all 400+ miles back home, they even looked fine. Surprisingly, even without being balanced they rode good and I'm pretty picky about having trailer tires balanced and swapping the tire out if it feels weird. (well except for the trip last month when it felt like a circus wagon) A year of the trailer sitting in 1 place and the desert sun did the tires in, that and their age...

I think I'm going to put the new tires on it and watch it like a hawk, if anything is out of the ordinary I'll take the trailer down and have a shop check it out.

Well, that and check out the swing tongue and axle alignment, make sure the swing tongue isn't going to cause a problem.

 

[bruceb58]

Re: Swing tongue loose and uneven tire wear

Were they radials or bias ply? I have had weird wear with bias ply before and that is why I would never buy them again. Never had a problem with uneven wear on radials.

 

[fishrdan]

Re: Swing tongue loose and uneven tire wear

Yeah, they were bias ply's, LoadStar 205/75 14's.

I was heading down to the tire shop when I noticed the tire problem, then got off on a tangent thinking I had a trailer problem. I'll ask the tire shop what they think of the wear when I buy the new tires, see if they think it's a tire or trailer problem. I still think its weird the outside of 1 and inside of the other is wearing.

 

[Mark_VTfisherman]

Re: Swing tongue loose and uneven tire wear

....A year of the trailer sitting in 1 place and the desert sun did the tires in, that and their age...I think I'm going to put the new tires on it and watch it like a hawk...

Yes- that is what prob did the trailer tires in.

Buy new tires and go to a shop that can set up a "line" alignment to check camber and tow from side to side. It may be fine, but even with the swing tongue wear I would guess that the tongue wouldn't create the issue without being super obvious even without the tire wear.

 

[Silvertip]

Re: Swing tongue loose and uneven tire wear

Bent axles don't bend in just one axis. Granted, most of them bend vertically which generally wears both tires on the inside edges. However, loose suspension parts combined with hitting a pot hole or curb can bend an axle laterally which most likely occurs at the spindle. You then end up with a toe-out situation on the that wheel. Conversely backing up and striking an object like a rock can bend a spindle/axle forward which would tend to wear it on the outside due to the toe-in orientation. Improper bearing adjustment causes high speed vibration due to wobble of the wheel and tire. Cupping would certainly result. Dropping the trailer off the end of a concrete ramp and then bouncing it back up again can also mess up alignment.

 

[Gary H NC]

Re: Swing tongue loose and uneven tire wear

The axle alignment will change with that hinged tongue loose.
When you are towing it is not pulling the weight from the center line of the tongue but from the hinged side.
It would be like having a bend in the trailer tongue.That would cause the trailer to track just a bit to one side and not centered.
I bet the tire that is wearing on the outside is the same side the hinge is on?
It would explain why the inside tread on one side and the outside tread on the other side is showing signs of wear.
A bent axle or suspension is still possible but i would address the slop in the tongue first.

On the Load Star tires, i have run them for years on several trailers and have never had a tire problem.

 

[fishrdan]

Re: Swing tongue loose and uneven tire wear

The axle alignment will change with that hinged tongue loose.

Yup...

The tongue is deflecting 3/4" side>side at the ball mount, also about 1/2" up>down, but I didn't measure up>down. I checked the axle alignment while pushing the tongue and it changed 1/16" on both sides, so: it goes from 189" to 188 15/16" on the left and 189 to 188 15/16 on the right, maybe not "exactly" 189 as I had to pick a reference point and measure off that, but it was moving 1/16" on each side.

Here's what the swing tongue looks like;

Besides aligning it perfectly and then welding it closed, I'm not sure how to keep it from deflecting.

- align it, spot weld it and then drill the holes bigger for a tight fit to the pins
- weld a couple flat bars onto the tongue's hinge, so once it closes the bars will hold it tightly into alignment

It appears to me that even from the factory the tongue might have had some deflection as there is still paint left in some areas of the hinge pin holes. If it was a snug fit and metal to metal the paint would not be there.

I'm going to call Zeiman and see what they say about the tongue deflection, maybe it's not a problem, or within their spec.