Synthetic Oil Inferior?

[Capn Mike]

Aww jeez...the last thing I want to start is another oil thread...but here's an interesting thing: <br />Switched from (various petro oils) recently to Castrol full synthetic. About halfway through the first tank, I was working a rowing regatta and idling lots with my 200 Johnson. The motor began to carbon up and now will hardly idle at all. When I crank it up and run full bore for a while, it clears up, only to carbon up again as soon as I return to idle. New plugs, too. Remember, this is a carb engine.<br /><br />Obviously, the oil isn't burning completely. My theory is that, since synthetic oil burns at a much higher temperature, this engine/plug combo can't burn it all, therefore the excess carbon. <br />Whatever the reason, as soon as it all burns up, I see a de-carbing session and new plugs in my future. And a lot of annoying engine misses in the meantime. And a return to cheaper pressed dinasaur.<br /><br />Think I'm a little wacko in my theory? This ever happen to anyone else?

 

[JB]

Re: Synthetic Oil Inferior?

You asked for it, Capt.<br /><br />I wonder how you know that the engine "carboned up" and that the oil was at fault.<br /><br />I doubt both.

 

[walleyehed]

Re: Synthetic Oil Inferior?

Are you pre-mixing or injection?????

 

[Terry H]

Re: Synthetic Oil Inferior?

I've had the same problem Capn Mike...the synthetic oil mixed with unburned gas and water filled the leg of the motor I used for trolling and choked it. I pulled the l/u and found a complete oily gunky mess. I did use that motor to troll with out in the Columbia for two days tho...maybe 5 hours of trolling. That is the last time I used full synthetic outboard oil. <br />One other thing I should mention to be fair, is that that particular motor doesn't use a thermostat, and runs real cool. Ther'll someone come on and say it ain't so, but you and I know it is...just a thought

 

[Drowned Rat]

Re: Synthetic Oil Inferior?

Capn Mike, are you getting a slick behind the boat with the syn. stuff? Strange that it would cause that much mayhem in so little time. Forgive me for asking, but the Castrol is TCW rated right? Could the new oil be breaking carbon loose that was already in the engine, probably not. Interesting.<br /><br />Chief, What kind of motor did that happen on? Just wondering how it choked the motor out.<br /><br />I use full syn. in my outboards and although I have not had any problems with it, I can't say I've noticed an improvement in performance either.<br /><br />Good luck Capn Mike. Let us know what happens when you switch back to dino.

 

[LubeDude]

Re: Synthetic Oil Inferior?

Ill wait for a more complete explination. <br /><br />Premix. oil injection, how the oil was changed over, etc.<br /><br />Basically shouldnt have happened.<br /><br /><br />Probably shuld have decarbed before changing over.

 

[cobra 3.0]

Re: Synthetic Oil Inferior?

Synthetic does work loose gummed up gunk in 4 cycle engines. This may have happend to you in your two stroke too. Lubedude is right...a good decarb before you try synthetic would probably have solved the problem.

 

[Terry H]

Re: Synthetic Oil Inferior?

Capn Mike...back to your question...I don't think synthetic tcw3 is inferior, just that I havn't found a practical use for it yet...and I'm not trying real hard either...after it gooeyed up that old 7.5 Merc. Maybe someday the lightbulb will go on and I will figger it out...just a thought

 

[FlyBoyMark]

Re: Synthetic Oil Inferior?

First off...Castrol is NOT TRUE synthetic and has NOT been for several years, no matter WHAT they say on the label. Castrol is a blatant, lying, deceptive outfit. There was a big battle in the Supreme Court over Castrol using the word "synthetic" by Mobile and a handfull of other oil companies suing them over the improper use of the word. A search on the internet will give you all the pertnant info. I stopped using Castrol "Full Sythetic" about a year ago because my automotive engines were varnishing up for no reason after years of Castrol being used in the past with no ill effects..<br /> Castrol is nothing more than "super refined" base stock and your being charged an astronomical, over bloated price for it.

 

[LubeDude]

Re: Synthetic Oil Inferior?

Originally posted by FlyBoyMark:<br /> First off...Castrol is NOT TRUE synthetic and has NOT been for several years, no matter WHAT they say on the label. Castrol is a blatant, lying, deceptive outfit. There was a big battle in the Supreme Court over Castrol using the word "synthetic" by Mobile and a handfull of other oil companies suing them over the improper use of the word. A search on the internet will give you all the pertnant info. I stopped using Castrol "Full Sythetic" about a year ago because my automotive engines were varnishing up for no reason after years of Castrol being used in the past with no ill effects..<br /> Castrol is nothing more than "super refined" base stock and your being charged an astronomical, over bloated price for it.

People are getting smarter all the time.! Even so, I doubt that it was the oil at all, I do not have a real answer though as to why you had the problem as the Castrol oil is still a good oil, but over priced.

 

[FlyBoyMark]

Re: Synthetic Oil Inferior?

LubeDude...The original true sythetic Castrol kept my engines REALLY clean...the varnishing is what made me look into all that stuff...This is in new vehicles. Castrol(lying sack of _ _ _ _ oil company so called synthetic)is a good oil, but not what for they claim it is. It's jus plain ole' motor oil a little more refined..

 

[LubeDude]

Re: Synthetic Oil Inferior?

I totally agree Flyboymark, I guess I just didnt make myself completly clear. I guess I should have said, "Its a good oil for what it is", but actually its a group III and not a true group IV synthetic.<br /><br />I had an issue many years ago where I got sucked into the hype of Castrols advertising campain of "Engineered for todays high revving engines"! I ran it in a 2.6 Misubishi Pickup 4X4, for 110,000 miles and then the timing chain jumped time, and I had to tear it practically completly down to change it, so I desided to freshen it up while it was appart. Well, it was very clean inside other than a light bronzish color, the bearings were perfect, they didnt even look used. The pistons and rings were a completly different story. The rings were so stuck into the pistons, I liked to never get them cleaned up enough to re-ring them, the oil rings were one solid mess, and the oiling holes behind all the rings were completly plugged with carbon. I have no Idea how I even had any compression or wasnt really using much oil. No more Castrol GTX for me. Probably different now, buy Im done with Castrol.

 

[Forktail]

Re: Synthetic Oil Inferior?

You're cracking me up FlyBoy and LubeDude. <br /><br />You guys must've missed the part where Capn Mike said he is idling this 200 HP Johnson extensively. Maybe you know something I don't, but I've never known any 200 HP Johnson that likes to idle a “lot”, no matter the oil used. <br /><br />Capn Mike assumes his outboard is loading up because of the oil, when chances are it's loading up because it's over-fueling at very low idle speeds. He says it's carboning up, yet I doubt he's examined the pistons, rings, and cylinders to verify that. And neither have you. Over-fueling can easily cause the fouled plugs.<br /><br />Furthermore, any outboard oil could theoretically cause carbon build up when idled extensively. If this outboard has previously been used much like this (idled extensively), then the previous oil could've been the cause, and the problem is just now showing its face. I highly doubt making a sudden change in oil brand would immediately carbon up his engine.<br /><br />You can bash Castrol's outboard oil all you want, but the fact is that both their Super Outboard Oil and their 100% Full Synthetic Super Outboard Oil are NMMA TC-W3 certified and registered. That means they passed (and probably exceeded) the requirements for carbon build-up in liquid cooled outboards. Both formulas are ashless, and we know ash is what builds carbon in liquid cooled engines.<br /><br />The Castrol Super Outboard Oil is a severely refined Group III petroleum hydrocarbon base stock. These are called "synthetics" whether you like it or not. So I suggest you get over it, and come to the realization that some of these severely refined base stocks perform very similarly to polyalphaolefins (PAO's) and are labeled as such. In fact in some cases the petroleum base stocks perform better because the PAO's require a higher temperature to burn completely.<br /><br />You may not like Castrol, and you are entitled to that opinion. However, at least the Castrol is TC-W3 certified, whereas some full PAO synthetics like Amsoil are not.<br /><br />LubeDude, I would've expected your reply to Capn Mike's post to be a tad more technical, given your "expertise" and all. Maybe at least some simple reasoning behind why you think Castrol is inferior and why it would be causing problems. The stories bashing Castrol just don't cut it, and they're getting old. When you start explaining your comments with facts and technical terms, then I'll consider you the "LubeDude". Until then, you're just an opinionated guy with a misleading handle.

 

[LubeDude]

Re: Synthetic Oil Inferior?

"Basically shouldnt have happened.<br />Probably shuld have decarbed before changing over."<br /><br />"People are getting smarter all the time.! Even so, I doubt that it was the oil at all , I do not have a real answer though as to why you had the problem as the Castrol oil is still a good oil, but over priced."<br /><br />"I totally agree Flyboymark, I guess I just didnt make myself completly clear. I guess I should have said, "Its a good oil for what it is", but actually its a group III and not a true group IV synthetic."<br /><br /><br />There you go again, screwing up a perfectly good descussion.<br /><br />Perhaps you would like to quote me as saying it was the castrol oil?<br /><br />Or maybe where I said Castrol TC-W3 oil was no good. You are so quick to jump to conclutions, you never even read the whole post befor you post.<br /><br />I guess we took it for granted that he had used this engine in this same way before without incident, actually the Castrol should have burned cleaner than the oil he was using.<br /><br />OK, I guess its time to close this one too, Thanks again Forktail.

 

[Forktail]

Re: Synthetic Oil Inferior?

By FlyBoyMark - Castrol is a blatant, lying, deceptive outfit.<br /><br />Castrol is nothing more than "super refined" base stock and your being charged an astronomical, over bloated price for it.<br /><br />Castrol is NOT TRUE synthetic and has NOT been for several years, no matter WHAT they say on the label.

By LubeDude - I totally agree Flyboymark....I got sucked into the hype of Castrols advertising campain of "Engineered for todays high revving engines"!...Im done with Castrol.

Looks to me like you're saying that Castrol is a "blatant, lying, deceptive outfit." You even say you got "sucked into their "hype". That's odd coming from someone who sells pages upon pages of Amsoil's "hype". BTW, Castrol synthetic is a "true synthetic". It's just not a PAO synthetic, nor has it ever been advertised that it is.<br /><br />I don't use Castrol, but I would have no problem doing so, as it is a NMMA TC-W3 ashless certified and registered outboard oil meeting all testing requirements for carbonization in outboards.<br /><br />Like I said, when you start explaining your comments with facts and technical terms, then I'll consider you the "LubeDude". Until then, you're just an opinionated guy with a misleading handle.

 

[Scaaty]

Re: Synthetic Oil Inferior?

I fail to understand why a true "dino" oil that LIKES to be burned, as is the case in a 2-stroke, would be replaced by a manmade oil at 5 times the price? I know, less carbon build up, blah, blah, blah. Call me stupid (get in line), but Castrol 20-50 in my Harleys for the last what?..20 years?-zero problems...and the Lubriplate TCW-3 on sale in 2 1/2 gallons at Boaters Bux for my 3 2-stroke outboards (AND weedeaters, chainsaws, etc) and zero problems. Sounds like a "stupid human trick"...solution looking for a problem. Of course, your situation may be different...new motor, etc. My NEWEST ANYTHING is a reman 350 in my 24 footer in 96. My 1988 Force 125 Bayliner Cuddy runs 5200 at 40 mph and had never been "De-carbed". I just run a little Techron Concentrate (not injection cleaner) through it a tankful a year. Again, do as you wish. The only oil problem is the one from lack of it.

 

[Forktail]

Re: Synthetic Oil Inferior?

 

[rbruce63]

Re: Synthetic Oil Inferior?

All TCW-3 oils are part synthetic so I wouldn't worry that the oil 100% synthetic is going to be incompatible with your motor boat. For instance Evinrude/Johnson XD-25 is 25% synthetic and the synthetic component increases its lubricity and reduces the smoke formation....

 

[Scaaty]

Re: Synthetic Oil Inferior?

Originally posted by LubeDude:<br /> The pistons and rings were a completly different story. The rings were so stuck into the pistons, I liked to never get them cleaned up enough to re-ring them, the oil rings were one solid mess, and the oiling holes behind all the rings were completly plugged with carbon. l.

Ya know, thats a classic symptom of detonation. Just because you can't hear it does not mean it isn't happening. Detonation will fry the oil in the first ring, then the second is exposed, then...you get the picture. Food for thought, and don't want to start an argument

 

[Scaaty]

Re: Synthetic Oil Inferior?

Let me clarify this some...<br />"Detonation will fry the oil in the first ring, then the second is exposed, then.."<br /> What happens is the extreme heat and shock of detonation will fry the oil on the ring and turn it to a crust and then the ring will not seal anymore...then the heat can get at the second ring, do the same, and the oil ring is next. You still have compression and will not use much oil as that crusty mess is doing a fine job of controlling both now. And not too many oils can take the heat of direct combustion without turning back to carbon or some other synthetic crud