Synthetic Oil Inferior?

LubeDude · Sep 6, 2004

Re: Synthetic Oil Inferior?

Well, I do agree with Flyboymarks quote, Even though Castrol won the court battle, dosnt make it a Synthetic in the eyes of people that know oil well. The average Joe sees "SYNTHETIC OIL" on the bottle and thinks its the same as Mobil 1 or some of the other Group IVs. They are paying the same price for a lesser quality oil. Granted there may not be much difference in the performance, but I still feel these usupecting people are being duped! I mean, how can you justify calling a highly refined dino oil a synthetic up against an oil that was manufactured from the ground up. Like all the other high court decisions are right latly, but thats a different topic. Legally a synthetic, yes, Actually a synthetic, No??? "I fail to understand why a true "dino" oil that LIKES to be burned, as is the case in a 2-stroke, would be replaced by a manmade oil at 5 times the price" Its not "five times the price", last I looked.? Maybe a little more than twice the price. RBruce63: Your comment about all TC-W3 oils being partial synthic is absurd!! Absolutly false. Also, there very likly could be some issue that actually caused the rings to gum up other than the oil. But I had to quit using Castrol in my RX7 also because of carbon, so there is two. It just didnt burn clean. I had no problem when I switched to Chevron Dello 400 15W-40, and now has a steady diet of 15W-50 Mobil 1 and never has run better despite the people that say not to use a synthetic in a rotary.

FlyBoyMark · Sep 7, 2004

Re: Synthetic Oil Inferior?

The original true purpose of true synthetic oil was the EXCELLENT deterging action and EXCELLENT dispersant qualities, little or no smoke PLUS long intervals before needing an oil change. Its lubricating qualities were so-so in the beginning. You won't get this as well with "dino" stuff.....That's why varnishing is occuring with Castrol Syntec now. This also applies to two cycle. Synthetic oils originally cured a lot of the problems with carboning and varnish with "dino" and castor oil but it also had short comings in the department of breaking down under heat and high stress. Todays true synthetics have resolved most all of these issues and are superior to "dino" stuff.

Capn Mike · Sep 7, 2004

Re: Synthetic Oil Inferior?

So I write this post on Friday, and get back to work Tues, and I see Florida isn't the only place the winds have been blowing...

Thanks to those who provided some light on this subject. I will say that my exhaust is less smokey than before...and yes, I'd spent lots of time idling before, and had to blow it out....it was just that with Castrol, the engine bogged ....lots ...before I could eventually get it running well. And for the record, I paid $22/gallon for the Castrol; I usually pay the same for Evinrude, $16 for Pennzoil "synthetic mix," $14 for Quicksilver, $10 for Pennzoil dino. Of course, it would happen in the middle of the fall salmon run. Nonetheless, I'm going to have a mechanic (Thurs?) look at it and make sure there's not some other problem, per JB's suspicions. I'll keep ya'll posted.

LubeDude · Sep 7, 2004

Re: Synthetic Oil Inferior?

Nope, not going there!!

Forktail · Sep 7, 2004

Re: Synthetic Oil Inferior?

By LubeDude - Even though Castrol won the court battle, dosnt make it a Synthetic in the eyes of people that know oil well.

People who know oil well understand that there are several "synthetics" on the market. Some of these "synthetics" are severely refined petroleum hydrocarbons. Others are made from polyalphaolefins. Depending on an outboard's engine design and cylinder temperatures, one may be better over the other, and visa versa (I have discussed the reasoning behind that here before for you LubeDude). So that's the facts, whether you think you "know oil well" or not.

By LubeDude - The average Joe sees "SYNTHETIC OIL" on the bottle and thinks its the same as Mobil 1 or some of the other Group IVs.

And the "average Joe" also thinks that running high octane gasoline will make his car go faster, and low-fat ice cream is healthy. Castrol synthetics have never been advertised or bottled as a polyalphaolefin (PAO) oil. If average Joe thinks it is, then he has made a wrong assumption and he should better inform himself, or at least read the bottle. Really all average Joe needs to know is that the oil is TC-W3 rated...which is what his outboard recommends. Sorry LubeDude, his outboard won't recommend a polyalphaolefin oil.

By LubeDude - They are paying the same price for a lesser quality oil.

"Lesser quality oil"? Comments like these display your ignorance. You fail to understand that some outboards run better on petroleum hydrocarbons (dino oil) than polyalphaolefins (PAO synthetics). For example, if a liquid-cooled 2-stroke outboard could not completely burn the PAO synthetic because of its cooler cylinder temperatures, then the oil would not be considered a better quality oil. The fact an oil is petroleum based does not automatically make it a "lesser quality oil". In fact I doubt you'll find a 100% PAO 2-stroke oil that meets the TC-W3 standard without being dual-rated for air-cooled 2-strokes. Gee, I wonder why? Furthermore, I know of no 100% PAO synthetic oil that is "the same price" as petroleum synthetic oil, including the Castrol. PAO's will almost always cost more, because they cost more to manufacture. And severely refined petroleum synthetics will always cost more than other petroleum oils.

By LubeDude - I mean, how can you justify calling a highly refined dino oil a synthetic up against an oil that was manufactured from the ground up. Like all the other high court decisions are right latly, but thats a different topic. Legally a synthetic, yes, Actually a synthetic, No???

Well, how can the 100% synthetic oil manufacturers like Mobil and Amsoil, who make their product from the ground up, claim their product as actually "oil"? Motor "oil" is a term traditionally associated with petroleum hydrocarbons, not man-made polyalphaolefins! Maybe it's these companies who are duping the public into thinking they're getting a true "oil". See, "synthetic" was simply a term coined by the early synthetic oil makers. It had no standard, requirement, or specification. It's definition was vague. If the courts had ruled against Castrol, then the government would've been setting a standard for the oil industry. And Mobil's synthetic would have been that standard. I bet the other competitive oil companies would've like that...not! Last I checked, our courts weren't oil experts, nor do they play monopoly to certain oil companies who want to coin a vague industry term as their own. So please open your eyes and realize that just as there are different types of non-synthetic oils, there are different types of synthetic oils. If you think a 100% PAO is best for your outboard, then knock yourself out. But I doubt you'll find one TC-W3 certified...and for good reason. The Castrol outboard oil meets or exceeds TC-W3 requirements. Nuff said. As far as your rotary Mazda, 15W-40 automotive oils, and Castrol Syntec....Who cares? We're talking 2-stroke outboards here.

Scaaty · Sep 7, 2004

Re: Synthetic Oil Inferior?

Originally posted [QBoil at 5 times the price" Its not "five times the price", last I looked.? Maybe a little more than twice the price. It FEELS like 5 times when your retired! But I can get car oil at 69 cents, or Syn at 5 bucks. That was my way thinking as I have no use for Synthetic oil anyway. If you REALLY want to know the skinny behind Synthetic, its the EPA. The sulphur, zinc, and calcium, etc, are no good for "cats" or emissions. Ask ANY old car restorer what he/she uses in cars that sit a lot...DEISEL OIL. Still has all that great junk that keeps your bearings from turning to junk from acid from combustion by-products. And mandatory "CAFE" BS has auto producers doing ANYTHING they can to get fuel mileage up. Thats the real reason for Synthetics. As an example, old 80/90 sulphur rich Hi-VIS/High pressure gear oil ran for YEARS in rear ends with no problems, but a real witch to turn on a cold start-up. Just because its new don't make it better..... "I love the smell of Sulphur in the morning"

Scaaty · Sep 7, 2004

Re: Synthetic Oil Inferior?

Going back to the original question, I don't think the oil on the inside matters as much as the salt on the outside.......!

LubeDude · Sep 7, 2004

Re: Synthetic Oil Inferior?

AAAAAAWWWWWWWW Chit, why do I even bother. "But I doubt you'll find one TC-W3 certified...and for good reason". Synergyn, Klotz, Cam2, and Royal purple are all TC-W3 certified to name a few. "It FEELS like 5 times when your retired! But I can get car oil at 69 cents, or Syn at 5 bucks". Im talking 2 cycle TC-W3. "As far as your rotary Mazda, 15W-40 automotive oils, and Castrol Syntec....Who cares? We're talking 2-stroke outboards here". And this was in reply to an Automotive post. "Ask ANY old car restorer what he/she uses in cars that sit a lot...DEISEL OIL". And this is a true statement, but I use a Synthetic in ALL the collector cars I manange. "And mandatory "CAFE" BS has auto producers doing ANYTHING they can to get fuel mileage up. Thats the real reason for Synthetics". No, thats the reason for the 5W-20 oils, which are a blend. "Old 80/90 sulphur rich Hi-VIS/High pressure gear oil ran for YEARS in rear ends with no problems, but a real witch to turn on a cold start-up. Just because its new don't make it better"..... The reason for synthetics in rear differentials is because of the shear streangth for todays high torque Diesels, and yes for cold temperatures.

Scaaty · Sep 7, 2004

Re: Synthetic Oil Inferior?

Aint oil questions FUN! Ps. Hey JB! Put a lock on this so we can move on! PPs. This oil stuff is getting me so paranoid that a trolling motor and 8 foot floatable is looking better all the time! PPPs. But does Synthetic have that "smell" that I grew up with that clings to old outboards?

LubeDude · Sep 7, 2004

Re: Synthetic Oil Inferior?

Originally posted by Robby6950: Aint oil questions FUN! Ps. Hey JB! Put a lock on this so we can move on!

Ya, why not, before I say something I will regret in the morning.

Forktail · Sep 7, 2004

Re: Synthetic Oil Inferior?

Synergyn, Klotz, Cam2, and Royal purple are all TC-W3 certified to name a few.

Not so fast LubeDude.... Klotz: Both their Outboard Techniplate TC-W3 and thier 50:1 Techniplate TC-W3 are dual rated oils. They carry the air-cooled specification with application recommendations for mopeds, motorcycles, snowmobiles, PWC, and of course outboards. Royal Purple: Their TC-W3 is also recommended for air-cooled 2-strokes, like chainsaws and motorcycles. "Royal Purple 2-cycle TCW III is recommended for use in both pre-mixed and oil injected gasoline two-cycle engines in outboard motors, motorcycles, jet skis, chain saws, etc." Synergyn: Appears to be another dual rated oil. When comparing their Liquid Cooled 2-cycle oil to their Air Cooled 2-cycle oil, the properties and specifications appear to be identical. The MSDS would indicate they are the same product as well. Synergyn also calls the TC-W3 specification an "API Classification", when in fact the TC-W3 is a NMMA Marine standard, not an API standard. Not to mention the oil is recommended "where heat is a critical factor". Since extreme heat isn't always present in a liquid-cooled engine, this oil may not perform as well as others. Cam2: "CAM2 Synthetic Water Cooled Two Cycle Oil TC-W3 has been designed to be compatible with air cooled formulas that contain metallic sufonates." And, "CAM2...was designed for high temperature/high output engines on racing boats". Not to mention some of the oils you list are not actually TC-W3 certified and registered with the NMMA. If you want to run dual rated (air cooled) oils, and high temperature performing oils in your cooler running liquid-cooled outboard, then be my guest. Don't quit your day job LubeDude.

Forktail · Sep 7, 2004

Re: Synthetic Oil Inferior?

Ya, why not, before I say something I will regret in the morning.

That's the trouble LubeDude....You never say anything that has any meat to it. Your comments in this thread are a prime example. For being the "LubeDude", you've really provided us with nothing here.

moderator1 · Sep 7, 2004

Re: Synthetic Oil Inferior?

OK that's enough.

Synthetic Oil Inferior?

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