Synthetic vs. Mineral - 1986 125hp

[bravogolf]

QUESTION: I am looking at getting Pennzoil/1 gal. SYNTHETIC marine outboard 2 cycle oil? Will it be bad for me to start putting in synthetic for my 50:1 mix? Should I stay with mineral oil? Does it matter?

I have a 1986 125hp Force O/B on my 1986 Bayliner Capri 1900. Thanks to Frank and his Sticky form, I just finished the Water Pump rebuild, and lower unit oil, and new spark plugs.

When I took the boat out after doing those two things (my first time as I just bought it), it had a bit of blue/white smoke to it, like burning oil. But I only had time to "putz" around at slow idle as the project took me ALL day and it was about sunset. So 1.) it was old fuel, diluted with 6gal of new gas (and oil mix of course) and 2.) I never really got it up to high RPM to clear out the rusty cylinders from storage. I used very Generic oil for 50:1 mix. I am becoming convinced to pay for a name brand like Valvoline or Pennzoil, as they likely test their oil and it probably burns better with the fuel mix.


Thanks!

 

[Justinde]

Re: Synthetic vs. Mineral - 1986 125hp

Good question- " Oils aint Oils"...... having said that, I spend a little more on oil for mine. Really, I go through bugger all of the stuff, and so cost wise, it doesn't empty your wallet too much, so, cost aside, what are the benefits?

Dunno, I just think that the better the oil, the better off your engine will be. Maybe its a myth for Mythbusters, but I feel better knowing I put quality oil in my 125.

Cheers

 

[bravogolf]

Re: Synthetic vs. Mineral - 1986 125hp

Justinde:

Thank you for taking the time to comment.

Anyone else have their 2 cents to mention?

 

[jerryjerry05]

Re: Synthetic vs. Mineral - 1986 125hp

I use Wally World oil.
Just keep in mind that any 2 stroke needs stroking.It will need a de-carb as general maint.
I do mine about 1-2 times a year.Depends on how much I use it.And I use it a lot.
Just make sure the air screw is set right.That it starts easily.
Keep the plugs clean.They can be used for years without any problems.No electrode to burn away.
If the normal force has good compression and good spark it should start quick!!!
Any trouble starting,that's a sign from the motor there is something going bad.!!!
Good luck,J

 

[SweeperForce]

Re: Synthetic vs. Mineral - 1986 125hp

I also get my oil at Wal-mart. The brand is Quicksilver and I only run the Synthetic blend. Beware of their cheap-o oil(Super Tech)I don't think they even make 2 stroke oil. Just besure you ALWAYS use TCW3.

Tom

 

[huskerdaninva]

Re: Synthetic vs. Mineral - 1986 125hp

I use the Wally World Super Tech brand full synthetic for everything I own with a 4 cycle gasoline engine and have never had a problem. As for my outboard I also run the Super Tech TCW3 marine 2 cycle oil. (non-synthetic) So far have been very pleased. FWIW, I have never ran across anything of substance to preclude the use of full synthetic oil in any type of gas engine that was previously lubed with petrloleum based oil. I would think twice before using a "blended" synthetic oil of any kind, but that is my opinion based on studies I have seen/read by the API (I believe that was who conducted the tests and wrote the report.) I do know this topic will likely result in a number of opinions!

 

[Frank Acampora]

Re: Synthetic vs. Mineral - 1986 125hp

I use whatever oil is cheapest. Synthetic or regular, the engine doesn't care. It gets a fresh shot of oil with each revolution, uses it, and burns it up. Same for gasoline. I use the cheapest I can find. These are expendable commodities like electricity--buy 'em and use 'em. Your toaster doesn't care what company supplies the electricity.

If it makes you fell better to spend more for "green" electricity, feel free to do so. If it makes you feel better to use more expensive oils, again, feel free to do so. Want to waste money on high test gas? be my guest.

 

[steveclv]

Re: Synthetic vs. Mineral - 1986 125hp

Also remember that these are some of the oldest engine designs out there dating back to the 50's. Todays WalMart $6 a gallon TWC-3 oils are far superior to what was available when these engines were designed.

Now if you are talking a very highly stressed supercharged Mercury OB then that's a different story but for these old girls, anything will do just fine. I'll bet they would even run on kerosene when warmed up

 

[~Nickolas~]

Re: Synthetic vs. Mineral - 1986 125hp

I prefer to use synthetic oil myself or a synthetic blend at least. I would NEVER use Walmart oil and it scares me that some people in here do. I don't know but maybe quality control has improved over the years but several years ago I decided to buy that Syntech walmart stuff and it made my engine rattle and clank and just make horrible noises. I drained that within 5 min or so and went to the store and got some good oil and it went back to normal with no noises. Don't know what the deal was with that walmart snake oil but I will NEVER use it again. Oil isn't oil and there is a difference among brands and concoctions but Walmart oil would be the last oil I would ever use on a motor.

Nick

 

[BobList]

Re: Synthetic vs. Mineral - 1986 125hp

Chances are, Wally World oil was made by someone like Mobil, Quaker State, etc. WM doesn't own a refinery.. (yet).. Years ago, Montgomery Ward's engine oil was Made by Mobil.. Mobil had some ownership in Wards somewhere along the line. Same oil, different bottle, cheaper price... so maybe they leave out an additive for costs.. but as Frank said, 2 stroke oil doesn't hang around in a crankcase.. it goes in, swirls, burns, and exits!

Bob

 

[steveclv]

Re: Synthetic vs. Mineral - 1986 125hp

There is more marketing BS and crap written about oils then almost any other consumable. It amazes me just how much money is spent by oil companies convincing us consumers that their oil with their magic ingredients is better than their competitors and we end up totally confused and end up believing one company or the other.

The worst instance of this was the term 'Synthetic' which does not mean that the oil is truly made from synthetic materials.

I decided long ago to use the cheapest oil that meets the specifications - my Mercedes Benz has 234,000 miles so far and runs sweetly and I have never lost an engine yet because I used an inferior oil.

 

[Frank Acampora]

Re: Synthetic vs. Mineral - 1986 125hp

The subject of oil and gasoline is very much like religion: The point-of-view is sacred and there is no arguing. A person believes what he/she believes because they have faith and that is the end of the story. It goes beyond logic.

 

[Cannondale]

Re: Synthetic vs. Mineral - 1986 125hp

Frank, your posts are truly a breath of fresh air and sanity.

I do think it's funny that people seem to think Wal-Mart is actually bottling oil themselves.....here's a hint: WM uses the low bidder for their oil, just like Mercury, Yamaha, OMC, and everyone else does. Of all the normally found brands on store shelves out there, Pennzoil is the only one that actually makes their oil----everyone else is buying from Pennzoil, Mobil, Quaker State, or whoever happens to be the low bidder at the time the contract is let. They're all TCW-III rated, which is all every manufacturer requires for their 2-stroke motors.

Another thing that always strikes me as funny are the unfounded claims that this and that brand are somehow vastly superior to all the other seemingly inferior brands out there, and using those other brands is a sure way to grenade your engine. I hear a lot of "You GOTTA use Quicksilver in Mercury engines or you'll blow it up! Mercury recommend it so it's gotta be good!"

Riiiiight. And naturally Mercury recommends Quicksilver, it's their brand and they want to capture you as a customer and lighten your wallet into their coffers....using an alternative brand doesn't help Mercury's profits. Of course, the test is does Mercury, or any other O/B manufacturer, require the use of their own branded oil to maintain warranty on the engine? And the answer is always no. The only requirement for 2-strokes is the appropriate type of TCW-III oil (premix, direct injected, whatever.) And that's because the engines are built to run on TCW-III oils, regardless of brand. Besides, if Mercury, Yamaha, Honda, et al, required a particular and specific brand of oil be used to maintain warranty, the manufacturer would have to pay for it.....

So, in essence, Frank's right and don't fall for the hype, the fear mongering and marketing that's used to instill uneasiness in using any other brand of oil than the manufacturer branded stuff. They're all sourced from very few true manufacturers, and if it's TCW-III certified, it's fine to use, esp. for our older motors.

 

[ljc1957]

Re: Synthetic vs. Mineral - 1986 125hp

Bravogolf, I always used the Wal Mart oil without any problems and I wouldn't hesitate to use them again. However, I had a chance to buy some Penzoil synthetic at a really cheap price, so I thought I would try it. The engine ran the same, however, it starts much easier. That's true with my 4hp kicker motor as well. I also think it smokes less. My plugs don't get as gummed up as they did with the mineral oil. I'm happy with the Penzoil.

 

[pecheux]

Re: Synthetic vs. Mineral - 1986 125hp

According to someone I knew working for an oil company, all 2 cycle oils are the same and the only difference is some additives that is prescribed by each company putting their label on the can. For that reason I used the cheapest Wallmart & Can. Tire 2 cycle oil I could find to use in my Merc 115 hp 6 cyl inline and it ran great at all time and never had any oil related problem for the 7 years of ownership. Now own a 15 hp Force (previously owned a 90 hp Chrysler) and it would seem these Force OB's do smoke a bit more than other brands and I simply dont know why. Nervertheless since it's tiller and I sit next to it and idle a lot trolling (fishing) I switched to synthetic oil for the sole reason of having less smoke in my face, and admitdely it also does run a bit smoother at idle.

 

[steveclv]

Re: Synthetic vs. Mineral - 1986 125hp

Everyone throws this word around but does anyone know what it truly means in terms of oils?

SYNTHETIC

You might be excused in thinking that it means that it's a 100% man-made product and far superior to any 'old fashioned' mineral oil.

Name me the world's most popular Synthetic motor oil

You probably came up with Mobil 1 eh?

Guess what? Mobil 1 is not produced from a man-made oil base stock - it's made from good old mineral (dino) oil. The proof is actually on the Mobil web site.

The term 'Synthethic' was determined by a High Court Judge back in the 90's to 'nothing more than a marketing term' and 'shall not imply that it is produced from 100% man made ingredients'

 

[Cannondale]

Re: Synthetic vs. Mineral - 1986 125hp

Everyone throws this word around but does anyone know what it truly means in terms of oils?

SYNTHETIC

You might be excused in thinking that it means that it's a 100% man-made product and far superior to any 'old fashioned' mineral oil.

Name me the world's most popular Synthetic motor oil

You probably came up with Mobil 1 eh?

Guess what? Mobil 1 is not produced from a man-made oil base stock - it's made from good old mineral (dino) oil. The proof is actually on the Mobil web site.

The term 'Synthethic' was determined by a High Court Judge back in the 90's to 'nothing more than a marketing term' and 'shall not imply that it is produced from 100% man made ingredients'

But remember, that lawsuit was brought up by Castrol against Mobil 1, who prior to the lawsuit was producing a true synthetic oil. So, when Mobil 1 lost the case, they did the only sensible thing and reformulated their oil.....cheaper to produce.

But don't mistake Mobil 1 or Castrol or whomever's synthetic as being equivalent to regular dino oil. While the majority of synthetics use dino oil bases, the bases are PAO Group III, a very highly refined dino base oil, much more refined than the PAO Gr. II bases found in "regular" dino oils. And then there are true synthetics out there.....German Castrol 0W-30, Royal Purple, and Amsoil to name a few.

 

[steveclv]

Re: Synthetic vs. Mineral - 1986 125hp

Oh I agree - those oils are highly formulated but I was trying to show that Synthetic doesn't mean what everyone thinks it means. As to whether an engine benefits from them in a detectable way in the real world (as opposed to a lboratory) is the big question and for everyone to make their own mind up about. I know what I believe but that's just me

 

[ward107]

Re: Synthetic vs. Mineral - 1986 125hp

I have found that synthetics or even blends work better as lubricants. I used to think oil is oil until I started using synthetic gear oil in my lower end gear casing (royal purple). Clean as a whistle and no signs of ware or metal. Synthetics do not smoke as bad and do a good job cleaning the inside out. At wally world they have penzoil synthetic blend that is fairly cheap. I'd rather use a better mix when I can afford it, but with gas prices up, I have to compromise. I do miss the bug fogger from when I used mineral based mixes, helped keep the mosquitoes away, I get a little smoke but only when i've been putting for a while . The engine runs cooler than what it should but I don't know the true harm in that but I know it uses less fuel than a motor of the same model that uses wally world mix. My engine is a 94' and hasn't given me many issues knock on wood I've owned it since 2002. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Synthetic_oil

 

[steveclv]

Re: Synthetic vs. Mineral - 1986 125hp

Sorry ward107 - you are kidding yourself and falling victim to the hype of the oil companies.

I have run non-synthetic oil in my bottom end and it is also clean as a whistle and no wear or metal.

My 1984 125HP Chrysler has been run on non-synthetic oil from birth and still gives 150# compression on all 4 cylinders.

My car has 230,000 miles on non-synthetic oil (Castrol) and doesn't burn a drop and runs like a champ.

I buy the cheapest oil, the cheapest gas, and the sky hasn't fallen yet