Tagged’s 140 Johnson Resurrection

spybot

Chief Petty Officer
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Jul 4, 2016
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504
LOL OK we eat black pudding Pigs Blood mixed with oat meal and if we cant catch a Haggis we need to make our own ;)Main ingredients are Sheeps Heart Liver and Lungs mixed with oat meal and cooked in a sheeps stomach.
But they are natural ingredients whats in a bologna ??? :eek:
 
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jimmbo

Supreme Mariner
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May 24, 2004
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13,639
I'm starting to suspect leaks in the crankcase, pulse hose to fuel pump, crankshaft seals(usually upper), reed plate to block.
 

spybot

Chief Petty Officer
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Jul 4, 2016
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504
Back on the topic.
Thats why i had to rebuild my 85hp. Upper crankshaft seals had gone. Black sludge under the flywheel and also down the back of the starter. One way to check is if you run it with a 25/1mix .
I only say this because when i got the motor the guy that sold me it said to run 25./1 so i did then i tried 50/1 the boat couldnt even get on plane.
Its worth a shot even just a gallon of gas Try it and see.
 

Tagged

Petty Officer 2nd Class
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Jul 10, 2012
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Jimbo, none of those sound like small jobs. (frownyface). Spybot, no, the coil hasn't come in. But I did grab a coil off the donor motor. I had to solder the right connector onto the wire. But it didn't arc, and it did jump a spark across 1/2". So it's probably good for testing, anyway.

I posted another thread about some unusual test results, I thought might indicate a dead sparkplug. I learned that I was using the spark tester wrong. I might have a bad sparkplug, or I might not. My test just didn't prove anything.

So now it's back to the waiting game. It will be a couple of weeks before I get back to the boat to run more tests. I'll probably buy one new plug to take with me for more testing.

I said before that I thought it was fuel related. Now I'm not sure. It misfires at all RPM, so any fuel related cause would have to be independent of the jets. Is that right? A low speed jet clog would run fine at open throttle, and a mid-jet clog would run rough at mid speeds, and a high-speed jet clog would run poorly at mid and high speeds. So a clog that made the engine run rough at all speeds would have to be upstream, in the float-bowl valve, or fuel pump. Or an air leak upstream of the fuel pump. I've chased all of those problems already. I could certainly have failed in my efforts, but I think it's more likely that fuel restriction is not the issue. I think that as long as I have probable electrical issues, I can discount fuel. Please chime in if you think this paragraph is bunk.

Electrical failures causing no-spark in one cylinder would almost perfectly explain most of my symptoms. So I'm going to keep chasing ignition until I can rule it out.

Anybody have a good test for spark plugs? Is it just continuity through the center, and gap to the ring? These aren't resistor plugs, are they? How much resistance indicates failure? The Service Manual only describes visual inspection for cracks in the ceramic.
 

spybot

Chief Petty Officer
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Jul 4, 2016
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504
Yes it Is it just continuity through the center, and gap to the ring. Tag can you just humor me and run a gallon of gas mixed at 25/1 through the motor. Just see if there is any difference.
cheers Andy
 

jimmbo

Supreme Mariner
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May 24, 2004
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Jimbo, none of those sound like small jobs. (frownyface)

To check the upper crank seal would require pulling the flywheel to inspect. The lower seal gets plenty of oil so it should be ok.
The fuel pump pulse hose is a visual check
For the intake/reedplate gasket , spray a bit of ether or use an unlit propane torch around the joint when engine is running, avoiding the carbs.
 

jimmbo

Supreme Mariner
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May 24, 2004
Messages
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LOL OK we eat black pudding Pigs Blood mixed with oat meal and if we cant catch a Haggis we need to make our own ;)Main ingredients are Sheeps Heart Liver and Lungs mixed with oat meal and cooked in a sheeps stomach.
But they are natural ingredients whats in a bologna ??? :eek:

Ground up natural ingredients like lips, beaks, snouts, hoofs, hog anus(exclusive to Qwiky Mart Hotdogs), meat byproducts(internal organs), the odd bit of beef, pork, chicken, and various kinds of Road Kill. But it is so finely ground up, it is edible with out gagging and heaving
 
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Tagged

Petty Officer 2nd Class
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Jul 10, 2012
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123
And it’s yummy, too! Especially when paired with a slice of American cheese — which is barely real cheese — and Mrs. Baird’s white sandwich bread — which is barely real bread — and Miracle Whip — which is nowhere near real mayonnaise.

Man, growing up in the ‘70s was something, wasn’t it?
 

jimmbo

Supreme Mariner
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May 24, 2004
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My Bologna has a first name, it's H O M E R
My Bologna has a second name, it's H O M E R
 

jakedaawg

Rear Admiral
Joined
Jun 26, 2012
Messages
4,275
Jimbo, none of those sound like small jobs. (frownyface).

I said before that I thought it was fuel related. Now I'm not sure. It misfires at all RPM, so any fuel related cause would have to be independent of the jets. Is that right? A low speed jet clog would run fine at open throttle, and a mid-jet clog would run rough at mid speeds, and a high-speed jet clog would run poorly at mid and high speeds. So a clog that made the engine run rough at all speeds would have to be upstream, in the float-bowl valve, or fuel pump. Or an air leak upstream of the fuel pump. I've chased all of those problems already. I could certainly have failed in my efforts, but I think it's more likely that fuel restriction is not the issue. I think that as long as I have probable electrical issues, I can discount fuel. Please chime in if you think this paragraph is bunk.

not commenting on your miss or issues, I haven't kept up on this thread.

However, your reasoning quoted above is a little flawed, I'll try to explain a little, no offense intended.

While you are correct that carbs have different circuits each circuit is not independent of the others. Orifices that supply fuel at idle keep supplying fuel at higher demands. Often what is an air bleed at idle becomes a fuel orifice after the throttle butterfly passes by. A high speed orifice in the bowl not only meters fuel for WOT operation but also at all other ranges many times. In a sense one could say that each circuit, (idle, off-idle, and high speed) build on each other as demand increases.

Now, I am sure there are some carbs where the above is not true, but I doubt we will find one on a modern outboard....

Anyways, typed this just to clarify things a little for you so it may help your trouble shooting.
 

Tagged

Petty Officer 2nd Class
Joined
Jul 10, 2012
Messages
123
Thankes, Jakedaawg, no offense taken. It makes sense that fuel delivery would be cumulative. Even though that’s not how the service manual describes it.

I’ll not rule out fuel, then.
 

Tagged

Petty Officer 2nd Class
Joined
Jul 10, 2012
Messages
123
I haven’t been back to the boat, Andy, sorry. I won’t see the boat again for a couple of weeks.
 

Tagged

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Jul 10, 2012
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Fixed! (Again). And I was surprised by what was the problem.

I had had previously replaced coil #3 with a new Sierra coil, and coil #1 with a salvage coil from my donor motor. Today’s testing revealed #4 coil needed replacing as well. Put in my second salvage coil. Then onto the water.

Same problem, persistent misfire. I was unable to locate problem at the dock, until I found weak spark in salvage #1 coil. Only jumped about 3/8” gap. So I replaced that with my final salvage coil. Now I had strong blue snapping spark across 1/2”” gap on all 4 plugs.

Back on on the water, same problem. Persistent misfire. Maybe I didn’t connect a wire right? Pulled the cowling to check, and wiggled all the connections. Started driving again (with the cowling off — you see where this is going, right?) and it went like a greased bat out of Hades. Full power, smooth as a whistle.

Cowling back on, persistent misfire.

Turns out, the #4 plug wire was too close to the inside of the cowling latch. Every time I installed the cowl, spark would jump and kill the cylinder. If I opened the cowl to check, everything was fine. Made it darn hard to diagnose, since it only jumped spark when it was closed up out of sight!

I rerouted the plug wire to keep it away from the latch, and it ran like a charm. I’ll probably order a set of plug wires for a more permanent solution. But for today.... I just took my son fishing.


It was a darn good day.
 

jimmbo

Supreme Mariner
Joined
May 24, 2004
Messages
13,639
A more than a few us missed the 'Short to cowl latch', it happens quite a bit. A couple of wraps of Electrical Tape on the offending wire will reduce the chance of it reoccurring before you get the new wire
 

oldrem

Commander
Joined
Nov 7, 2013
Messages
2,002
Glad you found it. Troubleshooting can sometimes drive a person insane.
 

Tagged

Petty Officer 2nd Class
Joined
Jul 10, 2012
Messages
123
Hey guys, I’m back!

The motor is still running great! But I have a linkage question.

I’ve done the Link and Sync to set the carb pickup point even with the large mark. (There’s a smaller mark labeled “Start, I’m ignoring that one.). In gear, I’m idling at 800 rpm. Any slower, and it stumbles. I’m happy with the low end.

But at full throtte, I’m only getting about 2/3 rotation of the butterflies. The roll pin is at about 1 o’clock, instead of straight up 12, if that makes sense.

That’s plenty of throttle for almost everything I do. Except skiing.

What am I missing? How do I get that last bit of rotation without messing with the bottom end?

Does it matter that I’m using a 1995 control unit with a 1982 motor? Did OMC change the geometry of the control box?
 
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