TCW-III and Carbon Buildup

backdraft · Nov 25, 2003

Re: TCW-III and Carbon Buildup

walleyehed, I have been using Pennzoil 100% synthetic in the 125 motor since the oil came on the market. Before that it was OMC oil, II then III. Zero problems. I am thinking about switching to Ficht Oil as an experiment. I run the Ficht Oil in my 40 OMC 2 stroke. Been almost 2 years in that motor. Smokes less when cold than the pennzoil and runs slightly cleaner than the Pennzoil. The Ficht runs cleaner in the trolling motors to a much greater degree. They only see trolling speeds .5 to 3 mph. One boat or the other goes out 1 to 2 times a week. Take care, nevjb

rbruce63 · Nov 29, 2003

Re: TCW-III and Carbon Buildup

Nevjb: I have a Chrysler and feel that the motor's engineering makes a lot of sense then and now. I am concerned about using a 50:1 oil mixture designed for operation at WOT for trolling. I will experiment in my 1969 Chrysler 20 HP with a separate tank for trolling at 100:1. I feel that the extra oil in the 50:1 at 1/4 to 1/8 of throtlle will invariably foul the plugs (no problem, they can be replaced easily and cheaply) and clog the ring lands )difficult to replace and probably more expensively).

DJ · Nov 30, 2003

Re: TCW-III and Carbon Buildup

rbruce63, I think you're playing with fire. I wouldn't go 100:1. Every maker that has done it, has repealed it.

backdraft · Nov 30, 2003

Re: TCW-III and Carbon Buildup

djohns, I thought yamaha was still using 100 to 1. nwvjb

backdraft · Nov 30, 2003

Re: TCW-III and Carbon Buildup

rbruce, The auto systems omc used to use were 100 to 1 at idle. At speed they were 50 to 1. The system wasn,t reliable enough for them. I also have considered running 100 to 1 or 75 to one for my trolling motor only just to see how it works. I wouldn't do it with an expensive new motor but what the heck , with an old motor and careful measuring , it might be a solution for us all day trollers. nevjb

The Marine Doctor · Dec 1, 2003

Re: TCW-III and Carbon Buildup

Um..people this thread cannot carry on as JB has specified that promotion of products is not allowed on this forum. Mentioning brand names is just that promoting products. TMD

Peter J Fraser · Dec 14, 2003

Re: TCW-III and Carbon Buildup

Everyone has had a different experience. I had a '91 Force 70 on a 15' GOP runabout which I ran for a number of years using AMSOIL Synthetic Oil at 100:1 mix. A large part of my use was lake trolling (Rainbow trout)where the engine ran at idle for endless periods without loading up a plug or leaving a slick on the water. Never missed a beat in all those hours of running and ran happily at WOT. Best motor I ever had but the boat became too small for our use and I have traded it on a 73 Sea Nymph Commander 18'6" cabin with Volvo Penta I/O

LubeDude · Dec 17, 2003

Re: TCW-III and Carbon Buildup

Listen to the Marinedoctor here, TC-W3 is just a MINIMUM standard for oil manufacturers to meet! You will be doing your engine a BIG favor by using a better quality oil, Be it Ficht Ram, Penzoil synthetic, or Amsoil! Your engine will thank you for it in the long run!! LubeDude

walleyehed · Dec 17, 2003

Re: TCW-III and Carbon Buildup

Ditto, Buddy!!!!

BillP · Dec 18, 2003

Re: TCW-III and Carbon Buildup

Use a certified TCW-3 oil and decarbonize every 200-300 hrs and don't worry about it. There is nothing wrong with TCW-3 mininum requirements as they meet the mfgs specs. Beware of oils that do not have the TCW-3 certification and only claim to meet or exceed TCW-3 specs (sorry Amsoil salesmen but I strongly disagree that anyone should run an oil that isn't actually TCW-3 certified). Regardless, any of the name brand TCW-3 certified oils work fine in a Chrysler.

LubeDude · Dec 18, 2003

Re: TCW-III and Carbon Buildup

Ill be the first to admit that the Amsoil 2 cycle oils are not TC-W3 certified and I will give you credit for sticking to your guns, nothing wrong with that, but there are a lot of great oils that do not ever get certified for various reasons that far outperform the minimum standards for whatever aplications! 2 cycle motorcycle oils for one!! Racers go by what works, they could care less about certifications! Warrantee issues are a different story!! There are a lot of Amsoil dealers sponsoring various racers in aplications from drag racing, motocross, snowmobils, and outboaurd racing! Beleive me, if the oils didnt perform, no amount of free oil would make them use it! If you do a search on the web, you will find many, many people are absolutly amazed at the performance of the Amsoil products! Sure you will find the few that lost an engine and blamed it on the oil, But everyone Ive ever known that lost an engine changed brands of oil after that! Ive used the oils for 25 + years with NO Problems and have had better performance with every application Ive tried them in! So, with that said, Its your loss, If you want to use a minumum oil, its your privilage!!

LubeDude

BillP · Dec 19, 2003

Re: TCW-III and Carbon Buildup

LubeDude, Talk is cheap, easy and there is no data that proves Amsoil is better than any certified TCW-3 oil, except for their advertising hype. Racing is only half the story and certified TCW-3 oils do it nicely anyway. People who follow the racing scene know certified TCW-3 oils win just like any other oil. Every brand oil wins races and the only common denominator is 99% are synthetic because it revs higher. Suggesting that the certification is centered around just warranty issues is just another bit of bogus misinformation and is not based on supported facts. Getting the TCW-3 certification isn't just talk and advertising claims, it is data based on real testing and benchmarking. For every motor that has outstanding performance with with Amsoil there are 10s of thousands or millions that have equal to or better results with a TCW certified oil. I'll match my 47 yrs of outboarding and using TCW, I, II & III oils with your 25+ yrs anytime...never an oil issue in thousands of hours on dozens of motors. The only people losing are the ones who are lead astray...from unproven claims by an oil mfg who can't get the MINIMUM industry standard of a TCW-3 certification.

LubeDude · Dec 19, 2003

Re: TCW-III and Carbon Buildup

BillP: Shazam, do you just HATE Amsoil or what?????????? There are more people on this forum that use Amsoil than you would believe! Ive said it before, and I will say it again, 30 years of manufactur1ng quality oils has to speek for something! No business will stay in business that long with a garbage product! I have used these products for 25+ Years with better results than ANY other lubricants in ALL aplications be it lawn mowers, chainsaws, motorcycles, (2&4 cycles), cars trucks, inboards and outboards! Man, you have to get a life and quit bashing a product just because you do not like the way it is marketed or that it is not certified to a certain standard! TC-W3 IS JUST A MINIMUM STANDARD anyway, The fact is that the Ficht Ram oil is not certified TC-W3 and It is a highly recomended oil here on the forum, and it is a great oil! I do not see you bashing it!!!! I do not care what oil you use, I dont care what oil anyone uses, Im just here to say that there are some great oils out there that are better than what everyone sees on the shelf everywhere they go!! Ya, Youre going to say "PROVE IT"!! Well I have proven it to myself and so have a lot of others! Why dont you just find something else to do with your time than bashing products!!! Some of us are getting really tired of it! LubeDude

BillP · Dec 19, 2003

Re: TCW-III and Carbon Buildup

Lubedude, Chill out dude and don't side step. Have I trashed the quality of Amsoil or asked for evidence that supports their superior claims? Just provide real data that shows how good your oil is compared to the others. Maybe you could quit bashing certified TCW-3 oils right after you post the data? Also, there is at least one non TCW-3 certified oil rep posting here that has two user names and makes it look like different "users" of the product. It's a real hoot to see one post a repy to the other but it sure doesn't inspire confidence in that organization. I don't worry about that stuff when using certified TCW-3 oils. About Ficht oil...It's real simple, I follow the motor mfgs recommendations on oil. If their name is on the container and they recommend it, I don't care what the certifications are and use it. You being a smart man, I read this somewhere and thought it fit the oil certification bit pretty good...Smart men learn from their own mistakes and wise men learn from other's mistakes. Happy Holidays L8r

LubeDude · Dec 19, 2003

Re: TCW-III and Carbon Buildup

I guess I just cant figure where you are coming from, on one hand you say you wouldnt use a non TC-W3 oil and knock a product that dosnt have it, then on the other hand you say you do not care if a certain product has it, if it has there name on it! It seemed to me you were saying that if an oil is not TC-W3 certified, then it was no good! I really doubt that if I posted all the information on certain oils that I could find if it would make any difference to you! Besides, most of the TC-W3 oils are so ashamed of there products they wont put out any MSD sheets on there products! So who has two user names?? when I first started posting here I used Hasbeen, and have only used that user name one time latly to stick up for the Amsoil dealers when I was over at my Dads house and looking at the forum! I coulnt remember my Password for lubeDude! Im not even sure what we are debating anymore!!! LubeDude

BillP · Dec 20, 2003

Re: TCW-III and Carbon Buildup

Ok, it is very simple and I already explained about the Ficht oil. I do what the motor mfg says and won't use oil that doesn't meet what is speced in the mfg owners manual...TCW-3 or not. If Amsoil was speced I would use it. That procedure has never failed me and most seasoned mechanics will tell you to follow mfgs specs or be stupid. It could be a quality benchmark or whatever but a certified TCW oil is still the one way we consumers can measure different brands. A TCW certification is still the best thing going if a person wants to rely on anything but hearsay and advertising. When I read claims of superiority over the TCW-3 certification it seems appropriate to see them backed up with something more than vendor advertising. Along with that I think it is irresponsible for a vendor (who is likely looked upon as an expert) to advise customers to use oil that does not HAVE the certification (TCW-3)required by the motor manufacturer. There is too much hype on oils branding and not enough on maintenance anyway. If mixtures, temps and maintenance are kept right, oil is a minor issue. Oils get a bad rap when it isn't their doing. I didn't know you were double posting but in fact it was two other names. Nuff said.

walleyehed · Dec 20, 2003

Re: TCW-III and Carbon Buildup

BillP, any chance you are refering to me????? I posted as walleyehed during the week in hays, and kennys on the weekends, but on my signature at the bottom, i had kennys-keenyb-(walleyehed during the week) I made sure it was clear I was the same person, as I didn't logout at home one time, I had to create an ID for use at work....I did not reply to my own posts though....am I the party in question to you?????

LubeDude · Dec 20, 2003

Re: TCW-III and Carbon Buildup

(sorry Amsoil salesmen but I strongly disagree that anyone should run an oil that isn't actually TCW-3 certified). Is this not a quote from you?? You cant have it both ways! Also I would like you to quote me just one time where I bashed a TC-W3 oil on this thread or any other!! Ive always said that using a TC-W3 oil was fine but that you can do better! Ive Never bashed a single product here on the forum, I just do not do things like that!! What would you like as Proof or what document, or what recomendation and by whom! I can post an MSD sheet for the Amsoil 2 cycle line, but would you be able to find an MSD sheet on other TC-W3 oils to compare it with, I cant come up with even one! Like I said I think they are too ashamed of how poor there products are in comparison! I am not bashing TC-W3, we do have to have a guidline and Im glad it is there! TYPICAL TECHNICAL PROPERTIES AMSOIL Injector and 100:1 Synthetic 2-Cycle Oils 100:1 Oil (ATC) Injector Oil (AIO) Kinematic Viscosity @ 100°C, cSt (ASTM D-445) 10.88 7.5 Kinematic Viscosity @ 40°C, cSt (ASTM D-445) 82.87 43.7 Pour Point °C (°F) (ASTM D 97) -28 (-18) -43 (-45) Flash Point °C (°F) (ASTM D 92) 264 (507) 92 (198) Color Blue Blue SAE Miscibility/Fluidity Grade 2 4 Recommended for applications specifying API Service Classification: TC TC NNMA Rating TC-W3 (Pre-mix) TC-W3 JASO FC N/A ISO N/A N/A Show me something to compare it to!! Moderator: This post is NOT to sell oil, just a comparison, Your call! LubeDude

BillP · Dec 21, 2003

Re: TCW-III and Carbon Buildup

Lubedude, This is my last post to you on this.

Read my earlier posts (two) on why I would use Ficht oil and for other reasons why I have been posting to this string. I will say this very clearly...You have been bashing TCW-3 "minimums" and making claims with unsupported facts. In my humble opinion this is not in the best interest of the boating community. Material Safety Data Sheets...are REQUIRED by FEDERAL law and can be had from any manufacturer on request (also a law). Statements that mfgs are ashamed to provide MSD sheets is just out of touch with the real world and reflects yet another off the wall statement.

You are also claiming Amsoil exceeds the TCW-3 certification minimums and is superior to other oils and/or their TCW-3 certifications. Then you post that you have no specs to know what the other mfg oils are about. Your posted numbers show nothing that proves they meet TCW-3. Can you see where this is going?

Contradictions like that are why people like me want to see hard data from credible (aka TCW-3) sources when choosing oil for their $10k motors. It is about credibility...and certified TWC-3 oils have it over ones that don't. Last but not least, if you are going to cut and paste my statements, be sure to include everything. Just posting parts to fit your argument are MISLEADING. Here's the part of my statement you conveniently left out about Ficht oil... About Ficht oil...It's real simple, I follow the motor mfgs recommendations on oil. If their name is on the container and they recommend it, I don't care what the certifications are and use it.

Happy Holidays To All BillP

LubeDude · Dec 21, 2003

Re: TCW-III and Carbon Buildup

Id get farther by posting to the wall! Youre so intent on being right, you fail to even see the point or answer questions! You state that I say things that I do not, and keep restating things that I ask you to clarify! Of course MSD Sheets are available, I just couldnt come up with any on my breif search and who has time to write letters and request them? I can find on the internet almost any MSD Sheet on an automotive oil, why cant I find them on TC-W3 oils? I didnt leave anything out of your quote, I just said what you said, reguardless of your explanation! I still say I do not BASH any Products, or MINIMUMS! Ive said time and time again that TC-W3 is fine and will not harm your engine, but that there are better oils out there! Ive even mentioned other product names like Penzoil, Synergen and others! When I say synthetics do not just ASSUME I mean the dreaded Amsoil! You are a VERY sharp guy, Its been a pleasure, I think!! Youre right, we are done on this subject! I also do not think you are done, I think you will have to get the last word in as that is just the kind of guy you are!!! LubeDude

TCW-III and Carbon Buildup

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