Ted Williams 9.9 Twin Cylinder

[magnum7269]

We have an old Ted Williams 9.9 Twin Cylinder outboard, not sure on the year of it... Plus i don't know much about boat engines. The problem is we can get it to start and run for about 5 seconds or so then it dies. When you take the spark plugs out, the top cylinder looks like its burning good, but the bottom cylinder looks like its flooding the spark plug out (like its getting more gas to the bottom than the top cylinder maybe). Now we tested both spark plugs/coils on both cylinders and they look to be firing good and seemed that both cylinders had good compression. So i'm lost on this one, thanks for any help on this.

 

[CATransplant]

Re: Ted Williams 9.9 Twin Cylinder

To help you, we really need the model number off the outboard. Several manufacturers made 9.9 hp outboards for Sears over the years. With the model number, it's easy to tell which outboard you have and give you the year.

Without it, not much specific information is available.

 

[pkrainert]

Re: Ted Williams 9.9 Twin Cylinder

have you checked the compression?

 

[magnum7269]

Re: Ted Williams 9.9 Twin Cylinder

i think it is a T380A not positive though, here is a picture of it though if that may help... ohh and there seems to be good compression on the cylinders...

 

[steelespike]

Re: Ted Williams 9.9 Twin Cylinder

Looks like an Eska 2 cylinder. Model would begin with 217.
Check spark carefully should be blue and make an audible snap.
Ignition is definately the weak link on those.Possibly carb is flooding.
Ignition parts are nonexistant and are more than the motor is worth.
Not sure about the fuel pump on those but on some motors a leaky diaphram will foul one cylinder.

 

[CATransplant]

Re: Ted Williams 9.9 Twin Cylinder

That's a mid to late 70's Eska-made outboard. It has solid state ignition and the symptoms you describe are those of a failing ignition system. I have one just like it that I finally gave up on when I could not find any of the needed parts.

If that's not the problem, and you have a nice hot spark on both cylinders, then parts are available from www.certifiedpartscorp.com. You will need the model number, though, which you should find near the transom mount.

 

[magnum7269]

Re: Ted Williams 9.9 Twin Cylinder

thank you all for the quick replies on this... in a day or so i'll probably try to find the model number off of it and some more details as i get time... when we first got this engine a few days ago, the guy told us it was a 4 stroke which apparently it isn't (he may have run it some with straight gas on a small lake/pond). but we got it to run once (after alot of cranking and alot of quiting) on straight gas for a few minutes when we first got it, just to test it... I don't know how long he ran it without mixing oil in the gas, or what all kinds of damage it could cause.

 

[magnum7269]

Re: Ted Williams 9.9 Twin Cylinder

i searched the transom mount but couldn't find the model number, the sticker has probably fell off lol... only thing i can really find is a metal tag on the motor itself that says T380A Tecumseh. Under the flywheel it has what looks like a date that it was serviced or something. can't remember the month and day but the year was 92 i believe, so apparently it has went out before lol...

 

[CATransplant]

Re: Ted Williams 9.9 Twin Cylinder

OK, that's enough. The only models that had the Tecumseh T380A were made in 1974 and 1975. The Sears model numbers are 217.58721 and 217.586210, respectively, so you can look up parts blowups, etc. at www.searspartsdirect.com. You'll also need the model number when you contact www.certifiedpartscorp.com.

It's the same model I have in my garage in non-working condition. Mine has ignition module problems.

I ran down a lead yesterday on the web, from a guy who has some stuff on tecumseh garden tractor engines. He has managed to fix some of the modules. The modules are under the flywheel. Apparently, the problem is a failed diode in the modules. He removes some of the potting material and replaces that diode, then fills in with epoxy.

Now, I don't know if the electronics are the same in the outboard engines, but it could be. I don't have time to fiddle right now, but I may see if I can do something similar this winter in my basement.

Overall, the engines are a nice design and, when mine ran, it was a very nice outboard. Lightweight, too. The problem really is that, since Eska went out of business so long ago, there are no circuit diagrams of the module interiors available anywhere.

There simply are none available as new old stock, either. Since it was a weak point in that engine, they have all been sold and installed already.

Another strategy is too keep an eye out for parts motors. If you can get them cheaply enough, you might get lucky.

One hint: If your ignition is OK, NEVER, NEVER crank the engine with the wires to the coils off the connector. That will kill the module instantly.

There's bound to be a way to fix these things, but I just don't have time to work it out during the summer. I suspect that it would also be possible to work out an external solid state ignition system for the engine, using automotive CD components, like those in 80s Chrysler products. Those use an optical sensor to trigger the module. It would probably be possible to mount sensors on the outside of the flywheel and use paint lines to trigger the optical sensor.

Again, I'll have this engine in my basement this year and see if I can't come up with a solution. If I can, there will be a lot of inexpensive 9.9 hp engines that can be fixed up.

BTW, that model Tecumseh engine is actually 10.5 horsepower, even though the engine says 9.9. Bonus.

 

[magnum7269]

Re: Ted Williams 9.9 Twin Cylinder

Thanks alot, keep us posted on what you learn, and hopefully we can figure out something as well that may be helpful

BTW... i think i seen somewhere, where someone had converted one of these to points system. not sure as how that would work though lol.

 

[magnum7269]

Re: Ted Williams 9.9 Twin Cylinder

ohh and does anyone know brands of types of spark plugs that can be used with this engine?

 

[CATransplant]

Re: Ted Williams 9.9 Twin Cylinder

Champion RJ14YC.

 

[magnum7269]

Re: Ted Williams 9.9 Twin Cylinder

Champion RJ14YC.

Thank you, it has NGK B7HS10 in it now, figure new ones might help some.

 

[classicevinrude]

Re: Ted Williams 9.9 Twin Cylinder

Hello,
I have worked on a few of these motors. They are nice motor once you get them running well. The fact that the engine was run with straight gas concerns me. How does it turn over. It should have almost no resistance with the plugs out (ground them). Test the compression with a tester available cheaply at any auto supply house. Three things are required for an engine to run, Spark, Fuel, and Compression. Good Luck, and have fun. You will figure it out! Classicevinrude

 

[magnum7269]

Re: Ted Williams 9.9 Twin Cylinder

the latest news lol... i'll probably try and borrow a compression tester off a friend of mine to test that for sure, done some more cranking on it today. i tested each cylinder alone and got it to run a few seconds off each cylinder... replaced the plugs and checked, looks like a nice blue spark on them. cleaned out the carb. good, doesn't look like theres a whole lot to it for this engine... using starter fluid to kind of help keep me from cranking myself to death, seams like it runs that out and dies lol. so maybe a fuel related problem, not sure though. So many possibilities and don't want to pay a marine place more than the engines worth to look it, or buy more parts for than its worth and still not fix it lol.

 

[CATransplant]

Re: Ted Williams 9.9 Twin Cylinder

Don't use starting fluid. Instead, use a spray bottle of premixed fuel, just like you'd use in the engine. 50:1 ratio.

If you, indeed, have spark on both cylinders, then start thinking about the carburetor. The fuel pump element is a cylindrical rubber bladder that inserts at the rear of the carburetor. They're readly available from the parts source I mentioned. If it has failed and has a hole in it, you're not going to be able to get that thing running on the tank fuel until it's replaced. If you pump the bulb on the fuel tank, it will probably go past the fuel pump bladder and into the crankcase, causing a too-rich mixture.

You can get a whole carb kit at that parts outfit, which includes the fuel pump element and everything else you need. Note that the needle and seat for the float are a bit unusual. The seat is made of some kind of synthetic rubber, and it's deep in a cavity. You have to make a little hook to pull it out, then use a dowel or pin punch to seat the new one. The fuel pump element installs with the slot at the back at a 45 degree angle.

There is also a flapper valve that controls the fuel flow from the pump. Those tend to go bad as well, and will stop the engine from running. A new one comes in the kit.

It's a fairly easy carb to rebuild.

I would check the compression, though. Don't worry too much about the actual numbers, but the two cylinders should be close to each other.

 

[magnum7269]

Re: Ted Williams 9.9 Twin Cylinder

that piece is apparently missing from my carb. lol... there is the hole where it once was, but isn't now according to the diagram on sears parts direct, so i'd say thats atleast part of the problem.

Edit: where do can you get the kit looked on certified parts didn't see any there though. thanks

 

[CATransplant]

Re: Ted Williams 9.9 Twin Cylinder

You have to call the number on the web site. Then, the guy will want to know your model number (use either one I gave you). They bought all the parts from Eska when it went out of business.

The rubber fuel pump element is available from the Sears site, though. If it's gone, that may be all you need. It won't run on fuel from the tank without it. There's a guy on ebay, too, who has the pump element. Search for Eska Parts there.

 

[magnum7269]

Re: Ted Williams 9.9 Twin Cylinder

ok got the element pump and put it in there and messed a bit with the idle adjustment, and got it to run once for a few minutes... then a few minutes later went to restart it, and after about 4 or 5 cranks (right when it seems like its gonna take off) it backfires back out the carburetor... then you have to start all over again... plus i need to know what a good position to start the idle mix screw would be to make adjusting a little more easy (i think i read somewhere on a different engine to snug them all the way down and back them off like a turn and a half, not sure though).
Atleast made a bit of progress ... any tips on the backfiring let me know, may eventually get this worked out and thanks for all the help so far!

 

[magnum7269]

Re: Ted Williams 9.9 Twin Cylinder

anyone on the almost starting then backfiring out the carb issue lol? not sure on its problem now. it started up and ran pretty good after putting in the element pump. then the next time i went to start it back up, i crank about 5 or 6 times, it acts like its about to start for a second and then the backfire (more like air pressure build up blowing out, not pure gas). then it pretty much does the same thing over and over.. have new gas mixed, new plugs... just puzzling why it ran pretty good right after adding the element pump, then backfiring everytime afterwards ...