Test result after replacing impeller...Help...

basstracker2008

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Jan 20, 2008
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39
Someone already said the result is a success but it won't hurt if I ask for another opinion right?.

Tested Neutral:
1. move clockwise and counter clockwise....Success...

Tested forward gear:
1. I push the lever all the way forward(forward gear).
2. I turned propeller clockwise. I heard a click sound (like slipping on something) as I rotate propeller. Is the click sound normal? Why am I getting a click sound as I turn it clockwise?
3. I turned propeller counter clockwise. It does not move. I believed this is ok.

Test reverse:
1. I pull the lever all the way backwards (reverse gear)
2. I turned propeller counter clockwise. It does not move.
3. I turned propeller clockwise. It does not move either...
 

Frank Acampora

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Jan 19, 2007
Messages
12,004
Re: Test result after replacing impeller...Help...

Got your PM but the reason I did not answer is that I am not too familiar with this engine. However: since no one else has answered and since the lower unit is probably very similar to Chrysler lower units I will make several observations and comments.

It is typical that forward gear is obtained by pushing down on the shift rod. This is important later on.

You state that in forward gear when you turn the prop clockwise you get a clicking noise. The drive dogs are usually slightly tapered on the back end to facilitate slipping into gear. When you turn the prop clockwise you are loading the dogs in the opposite direction as they would be with the engine running. The tapered portions are riding up over each other and dropping back into gear again with a click. What this tells me is that when you reassembled the lower unit to the midleg, you biased the shift rod towards reverse. You are not fully engaging the drive dogs in forward, yet you are fully engaged and then some in reverse so you don't get the click in reverse.

The engine may pop out of forward while running. This will round the front edges of the drive dogs leading to faster than usual wear. By the way: DO NOT EASE THE ENGINE INTO GEAR. To do so also causes drive dog wear. proper method is to quickly move the control handle about 1/3 of its travel to select the gear. This travel varies some from engine to engine but if you move the handle slowly while the engine is not running and with the hood off, you will see the shift linkage moving without throttle and timing advancing. That will show you how far to move the handle quickly.

THUS: You must slightly lengthen the shift rod to get neutral bias---that is equal engagement in forward and reverse positions. Loosen the jam nut and turn the long coupler about 1/2 turn at a time. Turn it in the direction to lengthen the rod until you have neutral bias.

Do not worry if you go a little too far: It is preferable to have just a little too much engagement in forward because this gear gets the highest loads and most use. Thus we try to ensure the most drive dog engagement possible. Reverse is typically only used at low throttle setting and for short periods. Thus I would rather hear the click in reverse but, of course, no click in either gear is best.
 

basstracker2008

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Joined
Jan 20, 2008
Messages
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Re: Test result after replacing impeller...Help...

Got your PM but the reason I did not answer is that I am not too familiar with this engine. However: since no one else has answered and since the lower unit is probably very similar to Chrysler lower units I will make several observations and comments.

It is typical that forward gear is obtained by pushing down on the shift rod. This is important later on.

You state that in forward gear when you turn the prop clockwise you get a clicking noise. The drive dogs are usually slightly tapered on the back end to facilitate slipping into gear. When you turn the prop clockwise you are loading the dogs in the opposite direction as they would be with the engine running. The tapered portions are riding up over each other and dropping back into gear again with a click. What this tells me is that when you reassembled the lower unit to the midleg, you biased the shift rod towards reverse. You are not fully engaging the drive dogs in forward, yet you are fully engaged and then some in reverse so you don't get the click in reverse.

The engine may pop out of forward while running. This will round the front edges of the drive dogs leading to faster than usual wear. By the way: DO NOT EASE THE ENGINE INTO GEAR. To do so also causes drive dog wear. proper method is to quickly move the control handle about 1/3 of its travel to select the gear. This travel varies some from engine to engine but if you move the handle slowly while the engine is not running and with the hood off, you will see the shift linkage moving without throttle and timing advancing. That will show you how far to move the handle quickly.

THUS: You must slightly lengthen the shift rod to get neutral bias---that is equal engagement in forward and reverse positions. Loosen the jam nut and turn the long coupler about 1/2 turn at a time. Turn it in the direction to lengthen the rod until you have neutral bias.

Do not worry if you go a little too far: It is preferable to have just a little too much engagement in forward because this gear gets the highest loads and most use. Thus we try to ensure the most drive dog engagement possible. Reverse is typically only used at low throttle setting and for short periods. Thus I would rather hear the click in reverse but, of course, no click in either gear is best.

Hi! Frank,

I maybe doing the testing wrong. Just to get some sense whether the click sound at prop is really an issue or not.

Here's what I did:
1. I separated the LU from MU.

2. Now I only have the LU on the table,
I pulled up shift rod in which to my understanding is what happen whenever I move the lever forward (if LU is connected to MU). I'm assuming I'm at forward gear now.

3. I moved the drive shaft clockwise and the prop move in one direction. I moved it counter clockwise and prop shaft moves in another direction (not sure if this is normal.please comment here). But the good thing is I did not hear any click sound at all.

So with the motor running, drive shaft is in control of the prop. I will not have any of this click sound issue and I'm assuming the above also proves that I'm fully engage in forward gear since prop shaft moves whenever I turn the drive shaft manually.

On the second thought, you have a point about the issue where my drive shaft teeth is not getting enough connection to the forward gear. If i understand you correctly, prop should be able to control the rotation of drive shaft. I should see my drive shaft turning whenever I turn the prop without getting a click sound. And this is not happening.
Is this correct or I'm totally lost.

Actually, I first tried what you suggested where I lenghten the shift shaft 1/2 turn at a time but I reached the end and never get rid of the click sound. Also I knew that I placed the jam nut and coupler in the same position where it was originally.

Is it possible that the teeth of either one is already worn out. Any test I can do to figure out if this is a lower unit issue without disassembling the unit?

Do I have abig issue where I should not use this boat on water at its current condition?

Please share your thoughts Frank when you get a chance.
 
Last edited:

Frank Acampora

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Messages
12,004
Re: Test result after replacing impeller...Help...

READ THIS POST CAREFULLY AND UNDERSTAND WHAT I AM WRITING!

First: Shift rod DOWN is forward and UP is reverse.

Second: The coupler is like a turnbuckle: It is threaded right hand on one end and left hand on the other--SO when you go to put the lower unit back on, you must start with the coupler all the way to the end of both rods then screw it on so they both pull in equally. If you don't do this, one end will reach the limit of its travel before proper adjustment is obtained.

Third: Bench testing proves almost nothing. On the bench you will never get the click because you are moving the shift rod all the way by hand. On the engine, if linkage is out of adjustment you WILL get the clicking noise.

No major harm will be done to the engine by running it slightly improperly adjusted UNLESS the drive dogs keep bouncing out of engagement--this will feel like a thud or thump when the boat is underway and as the dogs wear, it will get worse, eventually leading to expensive gear and drive dog clutch replacement.

Yes, when the lower unit is mounted on the engine, the click sound IS an issue.

SO: GET IT CORRECT IN THE DRIVEWAY BEFORE YOU GO ON THE WATER.

As I wrote in my last post: If you can not get rid of the click when rotating the prop, it is preferable to have REVERSE clicking so you are assured positive engagement of forward drive dogs. However, too much forward engagement will cause the drive dogs to rattle against each other when in neutral--causing wear. It is a fairly fine line you are straddling here.

Fourth: The two gears are on opposite sides of the pinion gear so they turn in opposite directions at all times while the engine is running. The dog clutch is splined to the prop shaft and sliding it forward into the forward gear or rearward into the reverse gear will spin the prop shaft in opposite directions when the drive shaft is rotating clockwise. Rotating the prop the wrong way in gear either on the engine or on the bench will rotate the drive shaft the wrong direction. This is bad for the vanes on the water pump as it flexes them against their normal rotation and if the impeller is hardened with age, the vanes may break off.

Fifth: Buy a manual. Things go so much easier with pictures for reference.
 

basstracker2008

Seaman Apprentice
Joined
Jan 20, 2008
Messages
39
Re: Test result after replacing impeller...Help...

READ THIS POST CAREFULLY AND UNDERSTAND WHAT I AM WRITING!

First: Shift rod DOWN is forward and UP is reverse.

Second: The coupler is like a turnbuckle: It is threaded right hand on one end and left hand on the other--SO when you go to put the lower unit back on, you must start with the coupler all the way to the end of both rods then screw it on so they both pull in equally. If you don't do this, one end will reach the limit of its travel before proper adjustment is obtained.

Third: Bench testing proves almost nothing. On the bench you will never get the click because you are moving the shift rod all the way by hand. On the engine, if linkage is out of adjustment you WILL get the clicking noise.

No major harm will be done to the engine by running it slightly improperly adjusted UNLESS the drive dogs keep bouncing out of engagement--this will feel like a thud or thump when the boat is underway and as the dogs wear, it will get worse, eventually leading to expensive gear and drive dog clutch replacement.

Yes, when the lower unit is mounted on the engine, the click sound IS an issue.

SO: GET IT CORRECT IN THE DRIVEWAY BEFORE YOU GO ON THE WATER.

As I wrote in my last post: If you can not get rid of the click when rotating the prop, it is preferable to have REVERSE clicking so you are assured positive engagement of forward drive dogs. However, too much forward engagement will cause the drive dogs to rattle against each other when in neutral--causing wear. It is a fairly fine line you are straddling here.

Fourth: The two gears are on opposite sides of the pinion gear so they turn in opposite directions at all times while the engine is running. The dog clutch is splined to the prop shaft and sliding it forward into the forward gear or rearward into the reverse gear will spin the prop shaft in opposite directions when the drive shaft is rotating clockwise. Rotating the prop the wrong way in gear either on the engine or on the bench will rotate the drive shaft the wrong direction. This is bad for the vanes on the water pump as it flexes them against their normal rotation and if the impeller is hardened with age, the vanes may break off.

Fifth: Buy a manual. Things go so much easier with pictures for reference.


The information provided seems to have everything I need. I read it more carefully this weekend. I already noticed something that I did not do from your write-up. I did not screw in the coupler to its rod. I immediately connect the Jam Nut and Coupler. I'll pay more attention to this on weekend. I'll send you a message when I'm done.

I suggest you open up a donation box (P.O. Box address) because I don't mind sending money or gifts for each successful project I completed or maybe special occasions. I'm sure others you help in this site thinks the same.

Thanks again Frank. I'm not only excited in boating but also find it interesting to fix engine probelms.

I have a repair manual/video but both sometimes are useless to a newbie like me.

I hope I can find a very cheap motor that I can disassemble and assemble. I'm sure I can understand things more easily if I see the internals not just pictures.
Right now, I'm still at a point where I'm scared or overwhelmed in dissecting outboard motors. But with this website and with someone as patient as you, I think I can do big things. Thank you Sir and willlet you know...
 

Frank Acampora

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Jan 19, 2007
Messages
12,004
Re: Test result after replacing impeller...Help...

Taking donations would be against the principal of this forum--I am here--and I suppose others are also--because we love to talk about engines and enjoy helping.

If you feel that strongly, put a little extra in the donation box of your religious institution anonamously or --Moderators help here--not sure--in the iboats forums name?
 

basstracker2008

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Joined
Jan 20, 2008
Messages
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Re: Test result after replacing impeller...Help...

Frank,

You quoted 'Shift rod DOWN is forward and UP is reverse. '

Mine does different, When moved lever forward, shift rod goes up. When moved backwards, it goes down. Do you think this is normal to a force 1999 40 hp? or I have a problem in the upper connection?

Does anyone has the same motor model, please comment. This is a big issue for me. Please help....
 

Frank Acampora

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Jan 19, 2007
Messages
12,004
Re: Test result after replacing impeller...Help...

Actually, when I wrote that down is forward and up is reverse, I meant engines before say 1992. After that, Mercury started making changes and it is very possible that the direction is reversed. I have not worked on later Forces so I could not say for sure. However, if you push your control handle forward, and the shift linkage comes up--if you turn the flywheel clockwise and the prop turns clockwise, then everything is correct.

On old style control boxes, it is possible to have internal linkage improperly set up so that forward on the handle would engage reverse. Not too sure about the newer ones though.
 

basstracker2008

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Joined
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Messages
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Re: Test result after replacing impeller...Help...

Actually, when I wrote that down is forward and up is reverse, I meant engines before say 1992. After that, Mercury started making changes and it is very possible that the direction is reversed. I have not worked on later Forces so I could not say for sure. However, if you push your control handle forward, and the shift linkage comes up--if you turn the flywheel clockwise and the prop turns clockwise, then everything is correct.

On old style control boxes, it is possible to have internal linkage improperly set up so that forward on the handle would engage reverse. Not too sure about the newer ones though.

I'm beginning to see a light bulb again. I will do that test tomorrow. Thanks for the quick response. Great site.
 

basstracker2008

Seaman Apprentice
Joined
Jan 20, 2008
Messages
39
Re: Test result after replacing impeller...Help...

Actually, when I wrote that down is forward and up is reverse, I meant engines before say 1992. After that, Mercury started making changes and it is very possible that the direction is reversed. I have not worked on later Forces so I could not say for sure. However, if you push your control handle forward, and the shift linkage comes up--if you turn the flywheel clockwise and the prop turns clockwise, then everything is correct.

Yes I have confirmed that I have the opposite. My propr turns clockwise when I followed your instruction. Is there any information I should be aware of about turning the flywheel manually. Is turning the flywheel safe in any way.
On old style control boxes, it is possible to have internal linkage improperly set up so that forward on the handle would engage reverse. Not too sure about the newer ones though.

Yes I have confirmed that I have the opposite. My propr turns clockwise when I followed your instruction. Is there any information I should be aware of about turning the flywheel manually. Is turning the flywheel safe in any way.
 

Frank Acampora

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Jan 19, 2007
Messages
12,004
Re: Test result after replacing impeller...Help...

The thing to be careful about is that on these newer electronic ignitions, (and even older engines) if the key is accidentally left on, then when you turn the flywheel by hand it is possible for the engine to start--resulting in making a good portion of the engine red and another member of the 9 finger club. Therefore, it is a good habit to cultivate to remove the spark plug wires when turning the flywheel by hand. Do not turn the flywheel counterclockwise! The water pump impeller vanes take a set and turning it backwards can result in breakage.
 

basstracker2008

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Joined
Jan 20, 2008
Messages
39
Re: Test result after replacing impeller...Help...

The thing to be careful about is that on these newer electronic ignitions, (and even older engines) if the key is accidentally left on, then when you turn the flywheel by hand it is possible for the engine to start--resulting in making a good portion of the engine red and another member of the 9 finger club. Therefore, it is a good habit to cultivate to remove the spark plug wires when turning the flywheel by hand. Do not turn the flywheel counterclockwise! The water pump impeller vanes take a set and turning it backwards can result in breakage.

Thanks a lot Frank.
 
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