The 2010 FrankenMerc Project

sschefer

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Before you begin reading this thread, please be aware that several mistakes were made but I made no attempt to go back and fix the original post because often the mistake wasn't found until three or for posts later. Instead, I've opted to make it more like a blog and just let you know when I decided something wasn't right and write about what I did to correct it. Don't try anything here until you read past it a bit to see if it's actually worked out like I planned. Thanks, Steve..


Scope - The FrankenMerc Project will be fun. It will consist of building a Mercury Outboard motor from parts found on eBay and other OEM vendors. When necesssary new Mercury Quicksilver parts will be purchased.

The chosen platform is merc's 60 degree V-6 between 1989 and 1996. A 60 degree engine simply means that the angle of separation between the port and starboard banks is 60 degrees. It can also refer to the fact that a 6 cylinder engine has a piston at TDC every 60 degrees but that makes it hard to discern between a inline 6 and a V-6. Unless you are referring to timing, the term 60 degree engine should mean its a V-6 in the Merc World.

As with all well managed projects, you should always plan a kick off meeting and this meeting is being kicked off with a case of Cheez-It's.. Well not exactly.:)

FrankenMerc016.jpg


Inside the box was a set of 6, Mercury rods and pistons. The casting number on the rods is 636-8118. According to boats.net parts lookup, these rods were used in V-6 2.0L engines from 1976 through 1992. These are what are known as bottom guided rods.

In this picture, two of the rods and piston sets are already in the carb cleaner tank, one is pre soaking in SeaFoam and the other three shown are waiting their turn. I will demonstrate breaking down a rod/piston when I get to the last piston. It's not all that exciting or difficult but there are a couple of simple things I'll show you to make it easier.

FrankenMerc017.jpg


On one side of the rods is the casting number 636-8118. On the other side is a two digit number.Four of the rods have 42 stamped on them one has 41 and the last one has 40 stamped on it. According to my research, these are the weight group numbers and Merc say's that they should only vary by +/- one number in any engine.

Measuring the piston skirts at 1/2" above the bottom of the skirt and at two points, (first aligned with the wrist pin and second 90 deg from that point), I measured 3.371 inches. The pistons skirts on a 135/150 are 3.115 and the 200 is 3.4939 so that means that these rods and piston actually came out of a 175/XR4 or Magnum II.

I had no intention of using the pistons over but I will probably clean them up and re-sell them on ebay.

As for the difference in the weight grouping. I will take the rods to my local machine shop and have them weighed. If the difference is too much then I will either try to find two more 42's or have this set balanced.

The rods and pistons were 76.00, shipping was 29.88 for a total cost of 105.88.

Ordering these rod and piston sets from Merc at the Boats.net discounted price would be 3,972.48 before shipping... WOW.... Yes you can buy new OEM's cheaper but not original Merc replacements and these will be as good as new when we're finished.
 
Last edited:

Boblester40

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Re: The 2010 FrankenMerc Project

I thought the 60 degree refferd to the angel of the V , like the old 90 degree OMC engines where much wider apart than the new 60 degree motors , any 6 cylinder eninge will have a piston at tdc every 60 degrees unless there is something seriuosly wrong with it :eek:
 

sschefer

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Re: The 2010 FrankenMerc Project

I thought the 60 degree refferd to the angel of the V , like the old 90 degree OMC engines where much wider apart than the new 60 degree motors , any 6 cylinder eninge will have a piston at tdc every 60 degrees unless there is something seriuosly wrong with it :eek:

From the info I have it refers to the firing of the cylinders but it may also be the angle of separation. I'll check.
 

Dukedog

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Re: The 2010 FrankenMerc Project

I thought the 60 degree refferd to the angel of the V , like the old 90 degree OMC engines where much wider apart than the new 60 degree motors

You got it right...........
 

sschefer

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Re: The 2010 FrankenMerc Project

We have a block. It's supposed to be a 94 2.0L with 6 scuffed holes but will cleanup at .020 over. Purfect and I know who the ebay seller was. He knows his stuff. $265.00 to the door. I also snagged a matched set of OEM 818141 new style top guided rods for 296.00, a new 16amp black stator and trigger for 76.00 and a 40amp flywheel which will go on my fishin motor and the 16 will go on this one or maybe not.. It's all up in the air right now. I also have a set of 4 petal EFI reed blocks with CCMS reeds on them and I have a good set of WMH-31 84mm carbs lined up.
Block:

9420Block.jpg


818141 Rods:

seacross.jpg


Stator/Trigger:

stat.jpg


Reeds:

FrankenMerc005.jpg
 

sschefer

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Re: The 2010 FrankenMerc Project

You got it right...........
Just got the question answered by Merc Tech Support and fixed the original post. Just an FYI if there is a question about the info I post, I'll get on the phone and make some calls. Sometimes I put info in here based on trusted info that I got somewhere else. I really appreciate it when you guy's catch it so I can correct it. Thanks to both of you!
 

sschefer

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Re: The 2010 FrankenMerc Project

Rod work -

I now have a new set of 818141 new style rods comming but I'll still give these 8118 rods a going over. I bought the new rods because they are a little fatter and that will help to stuff the crankcase a little and increase pressure. Read that as a little more umpf when it pops.

Anyway - Heres what I do when I work on rods -

After I take them out of the carb cleaner I put them directly into a container of Citrus based cleaner and water. That separates the cleaner and grease from the item pretty quickly.

FrankenMerc019.jpg


I then take them to my deep sink and wash them thoroughly with more Citrus cleaner and brush them with a soft stainless steel detailing brush. I use a stainless brush because fragments that might get left behind won't rust and I use a soft brush so I don't ruin the coating. These are probably going to be resold so they are worth more if they are in original condition.

Here's the weight group number that's cast into the block. I'm a little skeptical about this being a weight group number since it is cast in. I mean, how would they know until after the rod is finsihed? But, that's what they say it is so I have to go with it. I suspect they're really saying its the cast grouping and that they should all weigh nearly the same.

FrankenMerc029.jpg


Here's the most important thing you need to know about these rods. The rod caps are specific to each rod. These are broken off with a cutter during manufacturing and no two break exactly alike. You cannot re-surface the mating surfaces, nope, don't even think about it. You do want to clean them and when you do and they are assembled you will only barely be able to see the break.

Here's they way they look clean and ready to use:

FrankenMerc036.jpg



Once your have them pretty well cleaned up, it's time to see if they're straight. I use a piece of glass and a .0015 feeler gauge. You apply light pressure to the opposite end of the rod and if you can't slide that feeler gauge under the finished side of the rod you're good to go.

FrankenMerc035.jpg

FrankenMerc034.jpg


If the rod checks out good then proceed otherwise throw it in the recycle bin and make sure you never go back and retrieve it.

The next step is to clean the rod bolt threads on the rod. I have the correct tap for cleaning these threads but I doubt you will ever locate one so I'll tell you how to do it the other way which is to simply clean them. What is left behind in the threads is red loctite 271. You have to get it out of there or your torque specs may not be accurate. I'll use a pick and a wire tube brush and it works almost as well as a tap but it doesn't straighten curled thread edges. Unless your planning on turning 12,000 rpm it won't matter and I'm not sure if it even matters much then because there are alternative rod fastners that are much better for those applications.

FrankenMerc037.jpg


When they are clean enough, the rod bolt should thread all the way in easily, using just your fingers. Cont. in next post..
 

sschefer

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Re: The 2010 FrankenMerc Project

Rod work -

I now have a new set of 818141 new style rods comming but I'll still give these 8118 rods a going over. I bought the new rods because they are a little fatter and that will help to stuff the crankcase a little and increase pressure. Read that as a little more umpf when it pops.

Anyway - Heres what I do when I work on rods -

After I take them out of the carb cleaner I put them directly into a container of Citrus based cleaner and water. That separates the cleaner and grease from the item pretty quickly.

FrankenMerc019.jpg


I then take them to my deep sink and wash them thoroughly with more Citrus cleaner and brush them with a soft stainless steel detailing brush. I use a stainless brush because and fragments that might get left behind won't rust and I use a soft brush so I don't ruin the coating. These are probably going to be resold so they are worth more if they are in original condition.

Here's the weight group number that's cast into the block. I'm a little skeptical about this being a weight group number since it is cast in. I mean, how would they know until after the rod is finsihed? But, that's what they say it is so I have to go with it. I suspect they're really saying its the cast grouping and that they should all weigh nearly the same.

FrankenMerc029.jpg


Here's the most important thing you need to know about these rods. The rod caps are specific to each rod. These are broken off with a cutter during manufacturing and no two break exactly alike. You cannot re-surface the mating surfaces, nope, don't even think about it. You do want to clean them and when you do and they are assembled you will only barely be able to see the break.

Here's they way they look clean and ready to use:

FrankenMerc036.jpg



Once your have the pretty well cleaned up, it's time to see if they're straight. I use a piece of glass and a .0015 feeler gauge. You apply light pressure to the opposite end of the rod and in you can't slide that feeler gauge under the finished side of the rod you're good to go.

FrankenMerc035.jpg

FrankenMerc034.jpg


If the rod checks out good then proceed otherwise throw it in the recycle bin and make sure you never go back and retrieve it.

The next step is to clean the rod bolt threads on the rod. I have the correct tap for cleaning these threads but I doubt you will ever locate one so I'll tell you how to do it the other way which is to simply clean them. What is left behind in the threads is red loctite 271. You have to get it out of there or your torque specs may not be accurate. I use a pick and a wire tube brush and it works almost as well as a tap.

FrankenMerc037.jpg


When they are clean enough, the rod bolt should thread all the way in easily, using just your fingers. Cont. in next post..
 

sschefer

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Re: The 2010 FrankenMerc Project

Rods cont...

Here's a more graphic example of why you need to clean these threads. The rod on the left has been cleaned and the rod bolts thread in easily with just finger pressure. The rod on the right has not been cleaned and this is how far they thread in with your fingers. There's a pretty good chance you'll hit 30lbs of torque before these bolts are actually as tight as they should be. Not good..

FrankenMerc038.jpg


This next pic shows how the rod caps should fit and the indentation left by the breaking process. The opposite side has more of an anvil type shape. If you put these rods together the shapes must match. If the rod cap doesn't fit perfectly without any type of physical force then you have the wrong cap on the rod. Stop right there and figure out the mistake, do not try to make it work because it wont, never, not ever, nope... this is one of those:eek:moments.

FrankenMerc030.jpg


That's enough for today...
 

Faztbullet

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Re: The 2010 FrankenMerc Project

Here is some information that you can use:
The 1994 motor uses the 818141 rod from the factory and top guided pistons,you can use the 8181 rod but would need bottom guided pistons to make work . Also the the earlier motors 1976 up to around 1981 used a 625-5250 rod. Are you sure about carb mm as 84 mm is freaking HUGE!!???:eek: Also the used pistons you have are for a 2.4 liter motor as the 200 spec's you posted are for a 2.5 liter.
Quote Jay Smith Racing on rods:
Either rods will work and the larger rods has a slight "stuffing" advantage but the weight is a minus. The bottom guide system due to the friction of the rod to crank(approx 2" surface area) is the lesser HP choice as the more surface there is dragging, rubbing or "guiding" common sense would tell you there is more drag and no matter how small it robs power. The top guide system drags, rubs, guides a MUCH smaller area(approx 1") to keep piston and bore alignment,that would be the small end of the rod to piston boss area is a quite bit smaller friction area vs the larger rod area. The older 5250 rods are awfully heavy(490 grams) vs 350 grams for the 818141 HP rod. The lighter rod(8181) will show a BIG improvement in acceleration but not a huge amount on extreme top end (no more than 500rpm)
CC screamandflyarchives 4/16/04
Cylinder heads:
Stock heads are around 38-42 cc's from factory(1-piece lost foam cast) and for every .010 that is removed from the head surface the cc's will be diminished by .7 cc's. Example .040 removed diminish the cc's by 2.8 cc's. Head gasket testing z(stock .061) to thin HP gasket(.041) will not raise compression enough to fool with as maybe 2 -4 psi max increase was seen.
CC screamandflyarchives posted by raceman.
 

sschefer

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Re: The 2010 FrankenMerc Project

Thanks buddy, the skirt measurements I posted are the piston skirts for a std bore 175/XR4/Magnum piston not the bore so that's why the numbers look a little off. The 200 was the 2.5 with a 3.50 bore.

Re the rods, yes the 94 does use a tg (top guided) 41 where the 91 and before can be found with bg (bottom guided) 8118's or possibly 5250's. Its the 92 and up crank that you have to be careful with. There is a difference and from what info I can gather, the 8118's can't be used on the 92 or newer cranks because there's no shoulder at the crank journal. I'm just begining to piece that story together so that last part may or may not be completely factual. I'll try to nail it before I go on the quest for a crank.

The 5250 rods are big and do a good job of stuffing but as Jay say's they also restrict flow, the 8118's don't stuff but give you the best flow and the 41's are supposed to the in-between. I've never had a 5250 in my hands so that's also something I can't prove or dispute but I trust Jay.

I've been toying with the idea of cc'ng the crank case to see what kind of numbers I come up with. Might be interesting to see what the real numbers are.

I'll be using new 41's on this engine but I'm giving the 8118's the once over so folks can see what the basic tests and procedures that apply to all rods.

Thanks for the input..
 

Dukedog

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Re: The 2010 FrankenMerc Project

There is a difference and from what info I can gather, the 8118's can't be used on the 92 or newer cranks because there's no shoulder at the crank journal. I'm just begining to piece that story together so that last part may or may not be completely factual. I'll try to nail it before I go on the quest for a crank.

When sayin' 2.5 STYLE or Fat block it can be a 2.0, 2.4, or 2.5.

I like FB"s better. Its got all tha numbers in it:D He musta been really bored ta look up all that stuff..................:eek:
 

sschefer

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Re: The 2010 FrankenMerc Project

Thanks Dukedog, I got most of that info and that's what's making it tough to nail. Up to 88 they had that small center main then from 88-91 they went bigger then in 92 something changed and that's also when the went to the top guided rod. What I need to figure out is if the 92 changes were just coincidence or do the two go hand in hand. The other mystery is the 8th sealing ring. I've been told that it's what you use to tell the diff between a crank for bg or tg rods.. I'm pretty sure that's bunk..

Once I have the block in hand and can check the casting date I'll know for sure what I have to look for. It shipped this morning. It'll be interesting to see what I got for 197.00 plus shipping.
 

Dukedog

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Re: The 2010 FrankenMerc Project

Ditto ta FB's post below...........
 

Dukedog

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Re: The 2010 FrankenMerc Project

Just a note..........
One other thing that "real deal" guys (way more advanced than me) tell me on tha older shouldered cranks, tha "shoulder" is just a tad bit shorter than tha newer fat block shoulder. Haven't checked it for myself yet but it would stand ta reason. They also tell me that it will still work just fine on a sub 8 grand fat block motor................

Tha 8 ring was used on tha first oiler motors and later went away and tha 7 ring was born. Don't know for sure if tha 8 ring had shouldered center mains or not. If it does your home free as it can be used in tha "fat" block........Then ya got tha 9 ring...................................:p
 

Faztbullet

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Re: The 2010 FrankenMerc Project

Good info Dukedog!! Here is some added info with measurements and part numbers: The 1991 and up blocks use the "large" center main bearing (2.318 O.D) and the earlier use the small ones (2 1/16 O.D) most 1985-1990 engines(small) used the "shouldered race" bearing (31-93495) and it must have .050 side clearance and the 1978-84 used the non shouldered race(31-88903) On a crank(pre-ball bearing) the large/small diameter refers to the top journal only-1.375 is a small and 1.500(1.498 actual O.D) is a large and the center mains are all 1.375. 1.5 cranks are used on 2.0 135s,150s and hi-po models. The 1.375 were used mostly on 2.4 and 2.5 stock engines. Also in 1992 the upper bearing and cap changed to a larger bearing/diameter,the pre 92 upper bearing is 2.065 O.D and the 92 & up is 2.318 O.D.The crank differences are:

1.5's have a narrow center journal that require plastic caged mains and has thrust faces for bottom guided rods.

1.375 2.4 cranks have wide center main journal for use with the wire caged mains and and have thrust surfaces for bottom guided rods.

1991 and later 2.0 & 2.5 cranks are 1.375 on all 3 journals with thrust face for plastic cages with large rollers but lack thrust face on rod journals and use the top guided rods.

The Hi-Po heavy metal crank has mallory metal inserts in counterweights and use a 2 row C1 spec bearing on the top.

Here is list of years/hp that cranks are used (not the hi-po heavy)
small non-oiler..........................80-88.....200-225hp
small oiler 1 piece gear...............85-91.....135-225hp
small oiler 2 piece gear...............85-91.....135-225hp
large non-oiler..........................76-84..... 150-200hp
large oiler................................85 & up....135-175hp
small oiler 2 piece gear 8 splines..90 & up....135-225hp
small oiler 2 piece gear 13 splines.90 & up....135-225hp
 

sschefer

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Re: The 2010 FrankenMerc Project

YEAH.... Now that's what I call good detective work.:cool: The block will be here Friday and I'll know for sure then. I'm hoping its a 9765 block but I think it's gonna be a 9763. DD.. & FB... Thank you both for those huge contributions... I owe ya big time.

Steve
 

sschefer

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Re: The 2010 FrankenMerc Project

DD.. 9 Ring? Are you serious... LOL.. I thought I'd been zoomin in on to many Merc engine cranks on eBay or something, (had to be specific about what cranks I'd been zoomin in on):eek:. I thought I counted 9 on one but just figured my eyes were messin with me.:D
 

Dukedog

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Re: The 2010 FrankenMerc Project

Pre oiler motors and HiPerf motors (excluding tha ProMax line) use a 9 ring crank with a slight difference in tha two. Just one thing I will add about a crank goin' in a sub 8000 rpm motor. Tha main thing is tha shouldered and non shouldered center main's which determines which bearing can be used on that crank which determines which block it can be used in.....
 

sschefer

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Re: The 2010 FrankenMerc Project

Piston/rod break down. Here's how I do it:

You can buy tools to assemble and disassemble pistons/rods. Most of us already have them and don't know it.

You need a ice pic, a ball peen hammer a 3/8 socket and a 3/8 short extension.

The first step is to remove the rings. You can usually get a fingernail under the end and just sort of peal them out over the top of the piston. You can discard these because you don't want to use them again, (some do but I don't recommend it).

Next set the wrist pin so the first ring clip will come out easier. To do this, put the socket on the extension and place the socket end into the wristpin hole and tap once or twice with the hammer.

Piston009.jpg


Next, use the hammer to blunt the end of an ice pick. Insert the pick under the ring clip making use of the notch at the edge of wristpin hole.

Piston010.jpg


Put a rag over the piston and give the ice pick a quick pry. The clip should fly out into the rag. Throw the clip away.

Now roll the piston over and repeat the process to remove the other clip. Note: You actually only need to remove one clip if you're replacing the pistons.

Now that you have both clips removed, put the socket back in the hole and place the top of the piston on the edge of your bench.

Piston014.jpg


Use the hammer and socket arrangment to drive the pin through until the rod is free. Driving it all the way through risks dropping the rod and damaging it.

Piston015.jpg


Remove the rod, bearings and washers then drive the pin the rest of the way out.

Piston016.jpg


Keep the washers, you can use them over again. Some keep the needle bearings also. I look at the wrist pin and if there is any blue discoloration I replace everything. That might be overkill but I see it as just one less thing to worry about. New pistons usually come with wrist pins, clips and most of the time, rings. The washers and bearings can be a little hard to find aftermarket so I just order mine from Merc. Get 200 for a V-6, there are 29 per rod so that gives you 20 to drop and lose.
 
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