the crack of all cracks

[westcoaster90]

hay guys. working on another boat but this one has me a bit stumped. it's a 14'6" thermocraft. the boat is very nice and was a freebie. previous owner replaced all stringers, transom, and floor. to me it looks like he did a real good job. he didn't paint anything. all the repairs can still be seen through the glass. all fresh wood of coarse there must be a reason why it was free right. boat was sitting on a beach on a nearby island. saw it while cruising up the inlet and really wanted it so spent a month trying to track the owner down. found him eventually and he just gave it to me. he told me all that work had been done but it leaks severly. what the hell aye. got one of my trailers ready at the ramp for a quick pull. pulled it off the beach and started towing it in. she was taking on water something fierce. was almost going under by the time I got to the ramp. now I have the boat sitting in the yard. inspection showed that there is a long 4' crack along one stringer. amazing she made it to the ramp. I can pull the skin down and see most of the stringer and while it is water logged it still does look like new. I got a heater rigged up drying it out. my thing is that even though I have repaired many many boats I have not repaired a crack this severe and in such a bad spot. the stringer is delaminated from most of the hull. I would like to hear the restoration guys opinions on this repair. the seas around here are extremely rough a lot of the time and while I want it to be strong I also want to repair this without removing the floor. i'm thinking that if I take a layer of csm and applied it to the bottom of the stringer (when dry), then with a few jacks apply pressure to the shell pushing it up to the stringer. this should relaminate the shell to the stringer. then reglass the hull making it look like nothing ever happened. what you guys think? I can post pics in the AM if needed.

 

[glenn property of pam]

Re: the crack of all cracks

really do need pictures but it sounds like the stringer has to come out and the hull ground down then built back up before the stringer is either re-used or replaced. It would not be a cheap and easy fix to repair a 4' split in a hull and there's no way a redneck fix would work so close to the stringer as the stringer de-laminating is probably what lead to the hull flexing and cracking

 

[westcoaster90]

Re: the crack of all cracks

i texted the previous owner to find out how it happened and he said he hit a big log going home one night in the dark and had no choice but to beach as it was filling up with water fast. he stripped his motor, electronics and left it for dead until i got it. sat on the beach for 4 months above the high tide line.

 

[GT1000000]

Re: the crack of all cracks

Pictures, lots of them from different angles and perspectives might help us to see what you see and maybe give some ideas on how to go about repairing it...
From the repair you describe in your first post, I don't think that would hold up...
From the damage you have described, it sounds like at the minimum, you'll have to get the deck out...
But get us some pics and we'll go from there...

 

[westcoaster90]

Re: the crack of all cracks

so guys. I snapped 2 in the limited time I had. woman was bugging me to head to town. I think this will be enough for you guys to tell me the floor has to come up for a proper repair or go get a new boat. the stringer dried up overnight and looks to have a coat of resin over it. I have a feeling that whoever did the woodwork on this boat was a bit of a dummy because he looks to have done absolutely no shaping to make the stringer fit the hull right. the way it sits as is makes the hull sit pretty straight so I highly doubt the stringer ever made contact with the hull even after the job was done. the crack runs along most of this stringer. actually looks more like an 8' crack now that I've looked at it better. sure looks like a job well done when looking at the floor and transom though.

please tell me I can run this as is ..................:lol:

 

[jbcurt00]

Re: the crack of all cracks

please tell me I can run this as is ..................:lol:

Yep: Ya gots 2 options:
1) All day long, on the trailer, behind a tow vehicle......:facepalm:

2) On muffs or in a barrel in the driveway.......

Welcome to the iboats dry dock

This crack looks more like the chine hacked off the hull......

I know it's a fairly close pix, but it looks much longer then 8"....

I'd agree, the deck likely should come off. Nothing about these 2 pix say 'safe & sound' repair work........... So for that reason alone, deck off, IMHO...

 

[Woodonglass]

Re: the crack of all cracks

For sure that's gunna require both inside and outside glassin repairs. Deck either needs cut or removed to gain access.

 

[westcoaster90]

Re: the crack of all cracks

this is the mess that was under the previous patch. guy had it all stuffed full of that bondo with chopped glass in it. I picked it out and ground the surface of everything. oh ya and if you look at my post again you'll see I said 8' as in foot. I know it is a long crack :blue:. i'm still debating whether I pull the deck to do it up right or just pass on it. it's a shame to have a boat with all new wood work only to throw it out.

 

[Woodonglass]

Re: the crack of all cracks

Again, IF you decide to repair it, It WILL require Inside and outside laminations.

 

[westcoaster90]

Re: the crack of all cracks

so guys. I have motivated myself to doing this. I am going to cut the floor up next sunny day. i'm sure I can salvage the floor and the stringer wood is new so no worries. I will only have to buy glassing supplies for the repair. I went out and bought 12 yards of matt, 4 yards of light roving, 4 yards of heavy roving, and 20L of resin. should be good to go with supplies for the stringer and floor but may need to buy more for the outside of the hull. I got a question. when doing stringers I have always cut them to shape the hull the best I could, then apply 2 strips of soaked csm to the area I want the stringer to be stuck down, then stick it down. has always worked great. then rounded the upper edges and made a rounded corner on the bottom with putty made with fiberglass. my thing is I have always done it this way cause that's how I was taught. I have done this before but never had to repair somebody elses shotty work. I can see through the crack that the likeliness of that stringer ever being properly bonded to the hull was slim. is it critical to get the stringer to bond or is it just the shell going over the stringer that has to have a good bond? I never really questioned it when I was taught. I have always bonded them but it seems that a lot of boats come from the factory with the stringers just set in place and glassed over. I am gonna remove the stringer to get a good couple layers over the cracked area anyways but was just wondering about the other stringers. if the guy who rebuilt this boat did it with this stringer then they must all be that way. I feel like I should redo them all when i'm in there but really don't want to. hahahaha i'd rather be out fishing. the guy did a real good job with the transom, floor, and gel coat so i'm hoping the same professional looking job will be under the floor.

 

[Woodonglass]

Re: the crack of all cracks

Take a look at this...It's how I recommend doing Decks, Stringers and transoms.

"Fabricating Decks, Stringers, and Transoms"

 

[Woodonglass]

Re: the crack of all cracks

To to this repair correctly, IMHO, you will need to recreate the shape of the strake on the outside, then when installing the stringer fill the strake with thickened resin and bed the stringer in it and then do your filleting, tabbing and glassing thus leaving no voids.

 

[westcoaster90]

Re: the crack of all cracks

what about doing it from the inside? is that just as good? I just feel like it would be a lot easier to make to original shape of the chine that way. so the bonding to the hull is critical? I gues I should remove and rebond all the stringers then. I bet they are all like that. almost seems like the guy just took a 2x2 and threw it in there without any shaping then glassed over it. there are some major gaps in between the stringer and hull

 

[westcoaster90]

Re: the crack of all cracks

i will know a lot more once i get the floor up. if i see what i don't want to see then i will redo it all. i'm gonna try reuse all the wood as the prices here for the wood i normally use are outrages. i did the stringers in an old hourston last year and it cost me $53 for a 8x2x6 board of Douglas fir. i'm hoping that this area of the boat just has me thinking the worst because of the wack it got from the log and the rest of the boat is ok.

 

[westcoaster90]

Re: the crack of all cracks

the other side of the hull is perfect with no repairs done whatsoever. looks like brand new. the side i'm working on looks thrashed.

 

[matt167]

Re: the crack of all cracks

Put packing tape on the outside of the hull over the open area after you grind it nice and smooth, then you will want to put one layer of CSM over the packing tape from the inside, and overlap the hull a good amount. and let it kick/ cool. Then remove the packing tape and you will want to put at least 1 layer of CSM at that time on the outside. I would use CSM and then the roving ( really I would get 1708 instead of roving ) all in one layup on the outside Make sure your CSM layers overlap but always have CSM under the roving. Roving won't work right without CSM when doing a repair. Do at least 3 layers the same on the inside in the same way.. Doubful that you will ever get it perfect, but it might float again and become useful once more.

 

[jbcurt00]

Re: the crack of all cracks

. so the bonding to the hull is critical? I gues I should remove and rebond all the stringers then. I bet they are all like that. almost seems like the guy just took a 2x2 and threw it in there without any shaping then glassed over it. there are some major gaps in between the stringer and hull

Not surprising, but you should also be prepared for the gaps & less then substantial glass work to be original.... Yes bonding to the hull is critical. The stringers & deck are 2 parts of a system, that all needs to work together as intended.

You actually don't want the stringer wood in contact w/ the hull, well bonded yes, but not in contact w/ the hull. Shaped similarly, but leave a 1/4" gap. You'll bed the stringers & the chine log (not exactly the correct term for your style of hull, but it's all I could come up w/ to describe the lumber along the interior side of the chine that cracked) in resin filler which will spread the loading of the hull across a much greater surface area & decrease the likelihood of stress cracking (via a point load) the hull along a stringer, bulkhead or chine log. Added benefit of the bedding is it also allows you to create a curved fillet joint between the hull & stringer, which will allow you to glass from the hull up onto the stringer w/ a nice smooth curve. For strength & ease of glass application.

Many production boat builders didn't fully glass or fully bed the stringers originally. Read thru some resto threads. There's all kinds of what could be described as shoddy original workmanship. But it was a generally accepted, production built boats method of construction. Voids in both glass & bedding. Glass that didn't remain in place as it cured, sagging & slumping off it's intended location. Poorly laminated layups of glass. A seemingly overall haphazard application of glass & resin (including when applied w/ a chopper gun).

i'm gonna try reuse all the wood as the prices here for the wood i normally use are outrages. i did the stringers in an old hourston last year and it cost me $53 for a 8x2x6 board of Douglas fir. i'm hoping that this area of the boat just has me thinking the worst because of the wack it got from the log and the rest of the boat is ok.

You might get lucky & be able to recycle some of the lumber in the boat, but I wouldn't count on it. In the overall scope of the pending project, new plywood

A 'good' grade of exterior 3/4" ACX sheeting or Auraco plywood would be a great alternative to using DougFir. Laminate 2 thicknesses of 3/4" w/ staggered seams to get a longer then 8ft 1.5" thick stringer. TiteBond3 is a could choice to glue up the stringers & etc.

There's a good multiple lamination exterior plywood supplier in Canada:

Called Baltic Birch exterior ply, here is a link to the description. Thomes Canada - Baltic Birch Plywood
.

Be sure to get EXTERIOR grade birch referenced in that link, not cabinet grade (much more common).

If you are going to remove the deck, be sure to carefully & thoroughly inspect the transom, including taking core samples. There's a lot of work pending on this project, it'd be a shame to leave an important piece of the puzzle (and boat structure) to chance. Besides, the transom will be significantly easier to address & replace while the deck & possibly the stringers, are out. Rather then in a season once you've replaced the stringers & deck.

 

[westcoaster90]

Re: the crack of all cracks

thanks for all your help guys. i am motivated and have it all planned out doing most of what you guys are telling me. the floor i am not sure i will be able to salvage. all depends on if i can uncover the screws holding it to the stringers. otherwise i will have to cut it out in pieces. the stringers i know for a fact i will be able to salvage (as long as no rot is present that is). the one exposed has a layer of resin on it and is dry. all other wood is solid and new. the rebuilder didn't paint the glasswork so it can be seen through the glass that all the wood is fresh. this is the only reason i am going to fix this boat. what i'm hoping right now is that the builder knew exactly what he was doing and the only reason the stringer looks the way it looks through the crack is because all the peanut butter (as in woodonglass's illustration) got hammered out after hitting the log and hammering on waves afterward. i can see through the crack that the stringer is still bonded to the keel side but is completely separated from the outer side. i will know more once the floor is up and i will post pics. i actually think i have a sheet of that birch plywood sitting in my shop. not sure exactly what grade it is but it is super smooth and has no imperfections or voids. i will check it out another day. i'm back to work tomorrow. 6am-6pm until next Wednesday. i wish i could be working on this boat though. gotta make money for projects like this though.

 

[westcoaster90]

Re: the crack of all cracks

finally a half assed decent day to cut up the floor. what I found was depressing :blue:

really the only thing that went my way was I salvaged the floor in perfect condition. the bow section of the floor is grosse so I will have to cut out the front section also. the stringers have no soft spots as far as I can tell but they are wet. the guy I got it from said the stringers were replaced along with the floor and transom by the previous owner. I can see now that the stringers were not. whoever installed these stringers didn't even round the edges. there are little zings all over them where the guy went to far with his cutting blade removing the floor. really easy for me as the guy didn't even screw the floor to any stringers. all I did was cut around the outer edge with a grinder and she popped right out. let me know what you guys think. as of now i'm thinking the guy who did the repairs on this here boat shouldn't be working on boats. it's just amazing what some people do. if yer in there already do it proper ya know. the stringers have spots that look like glass was ripped off of them but there is no sign of that missing glass in there. I figure the rebuilder just put the floor down right over top of this mess :facepalm:

 

[matt167]

Re: the crack of all cracks

That boats not worth the repair.