The ultimate answer to all our motor problems

[grandpaclint]

If you have an outboard that is getting close to 6 months old
you need to take it to a junk yard--now.
Because by the time it gets to 7 months old it will be obsolete.

Just read all these posts, i have a merc# xxxxxxxxx and it was made in 19xx,,,the book shows it can have as many as 25 different carbs on it,all obsolete, the top carb is different from the bottom one.
The middle one, only god knows what it is.

My motor is hard to start, or what is the starting procedure for
a 25 merc with a carb with no choke?-------well what carb is it
are your shift cables loose? Give me a break.
How do you start a damn fuel enrichment type carbed motor.

Lets all just junk our over 7 month old motors and start the whole damn thing over again

oh yes the best part is finding the little gasket you need that
cost .03 cents to make, and charge 15.99 + 10.00 shipping

just ranting

 

[samm835]

Re: The ultimate answer to all our motor problems

I'm curious are you irritated at people asking questions on how they should fix there motor or are you pissed because you over paid for a gasket? It seems either way sounds like you need a relaxing chair and a cold one, before complaining that people go to a forum to ask questions.....hmmm isn't that what this forum is for?

 

[dutchdog]

Re: The ultimate answer to all our motor problems

Sounds like someone needs to go fishing.

 

[achris]

Re: The ultimate answer to all our motor problems

Sounds more like someone needs to read the damn instruction book that came with the engine!!!

The use of the enricher 'choke' system is clearly and precisely detailed in the owners handbook. You know, the one you left laying on the floor, because YOU don't need no stupid handbook!!!

The starting system on those engines is one of the best around. If you can't get your head around 'pull the primer twice, turn it fully anti-clockwise, pull the cord', I suggest you see someone who deals with 'special' people.....

 

[grandpaclint]

Re: The ultimate answer to all our motor problems

Sounds more like someone needs to read the damn instruction book that came with the engine!!!

The use of the enricher 'choke' system is clearly and precisely detailed in the owners handbook. You know, the one you left laying on the floor, because YOU don't need no stupid handbook!!!

The starting system on those engines is one of the best around. If you can't get your head around 'pull the primer twice, turn it fully anti-clockwise, pull the cord', I suggest you see someone who deals with 'special' people.....

well #1 i dont have an owners manual it is an older motor,but oh my no one
in the country can figure what it is,(no serial or model #)there is no primer to pull twice,or anything to pull but the pull rope.
i asked a simple question about the starting procedure for a non choke enrichment type carb, all i got was crap.

#2 i bought a crappy seloc manual no mention of anything faintly pertaining
to starting anything, damn little information re the j type carb i have.
tillotson bc1c.just a tad frustrating one might say.

#3 you bet your *** i am a special person i am 71 and have probably rebuilt
more 2 stroke and 4 stroke motors than you have ever seen.

#4 i look up the parts list on this carb,if i can get the parts i need those
parts would cost 127.00 if they are even available, a new obsolete carb
if there were any, is damn near 300.00, from all these upstanding outboard
motor parts houses, you look up a rebuild kit,,,,one wonders what is in the kit
no mention of the parts included .You want frustration you got it.

so if you feel you need to do some name calling thats ok by me, i just consider the source, now if you are an outboard motor tech,go back to your
computer, with that dazed look in your eyes and let it tell you what to do
with that 7 month old obsolete motor.
no pc in the world will ever replace a real mechanic

have a nice day

 

[grandpaclint]

Re: The ultimate answer to all our motor problems

I'm curious are you irritated at people asking questions on how they should fix there motor or are you pissed because you over paid for a gasket? It seems either way sounds like you need a relaxing chair and a cold one, before complaining that people go to a forum to ask questions.....hmmm isn't that what this forum is for?

i am not irritated at any one asking a question,,there are no dumb questions
just dumb answers.

i will never pay that much for that particular gasket, it is too easy to make one
(the main difference between a new tech. and a real mechanic)

i have been asking questions on this and other forums ever since i got this
morph motor 2 years ago

since i brew my own i think i will take your advice and have a cool one
have a nice 4th

 

[Rudi2]

Re: The ultimate answer to all our motor problems

I think the problem is you bought a motor that has m-e-r-c-u-r-y on the side of it instead of E-V-I-N-R-U-D-E. OK, I'm gonna duck and run now!

 

[achris]

Re: The ultimate answer to all our motor problems

Let's start again with a little civility....

How can it be 6 months old if you got it 2 years ago?

Point me in the direction of your original posts and I will see if I can identify it for you...

As for rebuilding more engine, possibly. But as a marine mechanic of over 20 years I have seen quite a few.

One other possibility is that you have an infamous 'FrankenMerc'. A bastard child created in the deep dark pits of hell in some pricks' back shed. I have often fired off at people who want to change things around, like "I have a 1984 18hp engine and if I put a 1997 carb and a 1985 exhaust and... I can get 23.6hp from it". This is the sort of modification that leads to the frustration you appear to have....

How about a photo of the engine cover? Mercs are quite easy to date by the decals. You should also be able to find a serial number on the block somewhere. It could be stamped into the block or on a aluminium disc that looks like a core plug.

I have looked at the photo you posted up of the carb, and there appears to be a few parts missing, again somebodies good idea for a mod. Don't blame the manufacturer for these types of problems. This is stupid people who think they know better than the people who built the thing in the first place. And the carb complete may be obsolete, but most of the parts should still be available....

Chris..........

 

[achris]

Re: The ultimate answer to all our motor problems

I think the problem is you bought a motor that has m-e-r-c-u-r-y on the side of it instead of E-V-I-N-R-U-D-E. OK, I'm gonna duck and run now!

You better!

 

[grandpaclint]

Re: The ultimate answer to all our motor problems

I think the problem is you bought a motor that has m-e-r-c-u-r-y on the side of it instead of E-V-I-N-R-U-D-E. OK, I'm gonna duck and run now!

well you might be right there, but the motor came with the old 16 ft lund
didn't have much choice.

i dont think it matters who makes the motor, the problem is if you make something that works,,, just leave it the hell alone.

also you can thank the EPA for a lot of this crap

 

[grandpaclint]

Re: The ultimate answer to all our motor problems

Let's start again with a little civility....

How can it be 6 months old if you got it 2 years ago?

Point me in the direction of your original posts and I will see if I can identify it for you...

As for rebuilding more engine, possibly. But as a marine mechanic of over 20 years I have seen quite a few.

One other possibility is that you have an infamous 'FrankenMerc'. A bastard child created in the deep dark pits of hell in some pricks' back shed. I have often fired off at people who want to change things around, like "I have a 1984 18hp engine and if I put a 1997 carb and a 1985 exhaust and... I can get 23.6hp from it". This is the sort of modification that leads to the frustration you appear to have....

How about a photo of the engine cover? Mercs are quite easy to date by the decals. You should also be able to find a serial number on the block somewhere. It could be stamped into the block or on a aluminium disc that looks like a core plug.

I have looked at the photo you posted up of the carb, and there appears to be a few parts missing, again somebodies good idea for a mod. Don't blame the manufacturer for these types of problems. This is stupid people who think they know better than the people who built the thing in the first place. And the carb complete may be obsolete, but most of the parts should still be available....

Chris..........

civil is good,
i never said it was 6 months old, i was ragging on the fact that a 6 month old motor in obsolete by 7 months of age.


my motor is an 80 something,closest i have come is a fish camp motor
it could be a mariner, who knows,,,been painted black with merc decals
and 25 on it, peeling off by the way.
the motor has always, and still does start and run quite well,but with the
enrichment starting cold is a hit and miss proposition, and at 71 i dont need another cardiac event, all i asked for was the starting (procedure)
if i could at least get that, i could fix whats wrong,done it 100's of times.

there is a round knob below the cowl, you turn it right and the lever pushes
on the enrichment valve,nothing happens,pump the primer no visible fuel
in the carb,pull the starter 8 to 10 times it will start, turn to the left you have fast idle,,, my point is it has to easier to start then that,, or not, whatever

 

[achris]

Re: The ultimate answer to all our motor problems

civil is good,
i never said it was 6 months old, i was ragging on the fact that a 6 month old motor in obsolete by 7 months of age.

Can't see how you come to that conclusion, but, whatever.....

my motor is an 80 something,

Between 1980 and 1982.

closest i have come is a fish camp motor
it could be a mariner, who knows,,,been painted black with merc decals
and 25 on it, peeling off by the way.

Could be. Mariner is a Merc with a gray paint job, everything else is the same anyway.

the motor has always, and still does start and run quite well,

I'm not surprised, they're great engines.

but with the enrichment starting cold is a hit and miss proposition, and at 71 i dont need another cardiac event, all i asked for was the starting (procedure) if i could at least get that, i could fix whats wrong,done it 100's of times.

there is a round knob below the cowl, you turn it right and the lever pushes
on the enrichment valve,nothing happens, pump the primer no visible fuel in the carb,

The later enrichers pumped fuel in, not this model, fuel is drawn in, not pumped.

pull the starter 8 to 10 times it will start, turn to the left you have fast idle,,, my point is it has to easier to start then that,, or not, whatever

I've had a look at the Tillotson carb theory of ops... Looks like the starting procedure is to have enricher valve pressed down and the throttle completely closed on the first and second pull. Then open the throttle a little if it needs another pull. The system uses the manifold vacuum to pull the fuel up through the enricher valve and the passages in the carb. I can't see what pushes down on the enricher valve, so you need to fill me in on those details.

EDIT: I've had a look at the photo you posted in another thread. It took me a while to see, but I think the 'Enricher valve cover assembly' is missing. When it's in the fully 'choked' position it should press on the enricher valve and open it..... Have a look at this diagram (part #41).... The part number is -41434A1. Unfortunately it is NLA (not surprising for a part that was only used for 2 years, almost 30 years ago). You may be able to find it at a used engine yard, or (it looks simple enough) make your own....

As an aside, I have a 15hp with a very similar carb/enricher pump. I can take that engine out after having not been run for 2 years and have it start FIRST PULL.... The 25s are no different. If you have to pull it more than 3 times, there is a problem somewhere.

Hope I'm helping, if not tell me to sod off....

Chris...........

 

[grandpaclint]

Re: The ultimate answer to all our motor problems

ok i got it now #41 is obviously a a dust cover for the valve,i dont have one
but the lever that pushes the valve down, does it like it should
i also agree on vacuum pulling the fuel in, would not be visible.
all things being equal you just answered what i have been asking all along.
the starting procedure.
thank you very much

if you look at #5 that is the gasket that is 15.00,,,,totally ridiculous.
like the valve cover, easy enough to make.

thanks again

have a good 4th

Clint in az

 

[monk-monk]

Re: The ultimate answer to all our motor problems

and for those who brag, "I've been doing this for 30 years"...doesn't mean they've been doing it correctly...

 

[grandpaclint]

Re: The ultimate answer to all our motor problems

and for those who brag, "I've been doing this for 30 years"...doesn't mean they've been doing it correctly...

no brag, just fact

 

[will941s]

Re: The ultimate answer to all our motor problems

Ok, your motor is one of those in between years model changes trype motors where it has new and old crap. Like a preteen turning into a teenager. Your powerhead, mid, and lower is the current 25hp (without mercosil bores). The carb however is from a older motor. The newer carb has a primer on the side that when you pull the choke all the way out, it would prime the motor. If you have the one of the first year models with with that carb you probably would have a regular pull choke, not the one with fast idle. You could, get a carb and choke assembly from a 1984 or something and have the complete newer style motor. With that one, you just have to make sure you have a really clean carb, thats all. The newer carb though....WAY easier to start.

 

[grandpaclint]

Re: The ultimate answer to all our motor problems

ok i understand that,now the question is

if i order a new bc1b tillotson carb,what in the hell will i get???????

just askin

 

[rodbolt]

Re: The ultimate answer to all our motor problems

I to have been doing this type work for almost35 years, and I see a lot of techs that have been doing it wrong all their lives.
a big roll around full of tools doesnt make a technician.
on most the tinymite motors there are no computer diagnostics avalible anyway.
the laptop simply makes it faster to figgure out what is not wrong with the engine making it faster to find what is.
take an F350 yamaha, over 100 trouble codes exist.
most all can be found with a multimeter and a service manual but would take two days.
if the sensor input makes the ECU happy then thats a sensor you dont have to test.
your right, most techs with no troubleshooting skills tend to replace stuff cause the computer said then wonder why it says it again.
saw a tech replace a map sensor cause it set the map sensor code,after replacement it set it again. burned intake valve.I have also seen map sensors replaced due to clogged injectors,a backfire in the intake can set it.

on your 25 if everything is in place and correctly adjusted it should start on the second pull at least.

 

[grandpaclint]

Re: The ultimate answer to all our motor problems

i want to thank everyone for all their suggestions and help.

i now know for a fact that i have an 80 something,frankin-morph,kinda new
but sort of old,mercury,or mariner,with or without mercosil bores,
that has a carb,that was only used for two years on about 50,000 different
motors,if i spend 234.00 for a new bc1b carb that is odsolete and keep it really clean, it should start 2nd pull, or better yet blindly spend 124.00 for a repair kit that has undisclosed items in the kit.

i would be in deep poop if i wanted a head gasket, for the above whatever.

 

[achris]

Re: The ultimate answer to all our motor problems

As we have already said, it's 80-82. Not 80 something. It does not have Mercosil bores. It's a Merc, not a Mariner.

A repair kit for the carb (part #1399-8153) is only $41. And it doesn't have 'undisclosed parts', this is what's in the kit.

The diaphragm and gasket kit (part #1399-8154) costs $19. And this is what's in this kit.

These engine blocks have an integrated cylinder head, no head gasket....

HERE is a nice place to buy a set of decals for your engine. All the 80-82 are the same and they only cost $90 for the full set. Then you'll have the right decals on your engine.

One question... What is the bee in your bonnet? You seem to be a really grumpy old fart.... You're getting all the answers you want here but still have an attitude.

Chris.........