There goes the neighbourhood...

eastont

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I just read that the US Supreme Court has refused to force Illinois to close the locks. This appears to show that there is no concern about what is being said regarding the Asian carp decimating the Great Lakes freshwater fisheries industry. A statement from our Natural Resources Minister "Ontario will explore further participation in the legal efforts in the U.S. to stop the spread of the species," If it will hurt the commercial fishing, what will it do to people such as me who enjoy fishing for pleasure.
I just hope it is not only words to appease the concerns, but a meaningful step to action.
I also hope the US states that began this process will keep going to find a way to eventually close the locks for good.
 

TilliamWe

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Re: There goes the neighbourhood...

Is there not much industry on the western Great Lakes in Canada? If there is, and the lock is closed, how happy will they be having to ship their stuff all the way out the St. Lawrence Seaway? So who's gonna win that prize?

You are also ignoring the potential industry that the carp bring. Between them and the mussels, the water will never be cleaner. And maybe some smart Canadian fisherman can figure out how to commercially catch the carp, turn them into fetilizer or export them. He'll be rich beyond his dreams!

No happy solution, but closing the locks is NOT going to stop the spread of these fish.
 

JB

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Re: There goes the neighbourhood...

This has the potential to become a political squabble. Please don't do that. It will need to be deleted.
 

CN Spots

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Re: There goes the neighbourhood...

You can walk across those stupid things in every river or river-fed lake around here. In many places, it's life threatening to motor at full speed without some sort of protection, full face helmet, reinforced windscreen etc. People have tried to make some sort of useful product out of them for years, even feeding them to prisoners (I found that one funny) but nothing has proven financially viable. I have seen tournaments that fish for them, usually with bows and arrows or just catching them in the air with a net and those guys just dig a hole with a back-hoe and bury the carp.

I would think that the fishing industry up there has looked into uses for these fish and if they are fighting so hard to keep them out that tells me that they have not found one. Those things feed off the bottom of the food chain and they do it with total efficiency. That's why the water's clear... not a good thing. Whatever is feeding off of that now is about to be starved out by a fish that is too big to prey on after it's a year old. They wreck the food chain from the lakebed up. The sport fish up there, like down here, will be greatly affected.

To me it seems like a major inconvenience to the shipping industry but devastation to the fishing industry but like everything else, it'll all come down to that "P" word that we can't discuss here. Whoever greases the most palms will get their way.
 

windsors03cobra

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Re: There goes the neighbourhood...

Several sopurces already say they arte in lake Michigan anyway.
I always figured they would get throught the several million dollar waste of money knows as the Corp. Of Engineers "electric barrier"

Hard to stop nature. I dont doubt they were brought here in foreign ballast water.

Hope the coho's and sturgeon make'r.
 

JB

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Re: There goes the neighbourhood...

When I lived in IL I used those things in my garden. GREAT fertilizer.
 

eastont

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Re: There goes the neighbourhood...

Hard to stop nature. I dont doubt they were brought here in foreign ballast water.

I think I read somewhere that they were actually brought in on purpose to deal with a grass issue in the rivers.....not sure though. It reminds me of why the MON brought in fishers to deal with the porcupine problem, then they brought in cougars to deal with the fisher problem.....what's next.

I've heard about them throwing themselves into the air and into some boats. I think there are you tube videos about it.

I do hope for the sake of the Great Lakes fishery, that something is done. Maybe there could be carp only disease developed, or put a bounty on them. That will get rid of them pretty quick...lol
 

avenger79

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Re: There goes the neighbourhood...

just goes to show that the money from big business (shipping) is more important then the little money from fishing. natural resource what's that? in todays monetary society all decisions are made with dollar signs. people in power seem not to care about doing what's "right" anymore.
 

roscoe

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Re: There goes the neighbourhood...

This makes no sense.
THey will shut down an entire river valley's farming industry in California, putting 200,000 people out of work and driving up food costs nationwide just to save a smelt in the bay, but won't shut down this lock to save the entire great lakes eco system.

Don't worry JB, this isn't politics, this is eco-comics. :)
 

windsors03cobra

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Re: There goes the neighbourhood...

Illinois and Indiana are not exactly Kaleefornia when it comes to saving mothr nature.
I mean Chicago dumps millions of gallons of of raw sewage yearly but since it goes down the Mississipppi its ok. Lest us not forget BP Amoco's daily dumping of Mercury into lake Michigan at Whitting Indiana and of course the old waukegan harbor which is still full of PCB's that OMC dumped not to mention the thousands of tons of asbestos Johns Manville dumped into lake Michiagn at Waukegan.

The lake is cleaner, no wonder why.
 

JB

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Re: There goes the neighbourhood...

I guess you guys are too young to remember that the Great Lakes fisheries were gonna be destroyed by the sea lamphrey.

Did the sky really fall?
 

gonefishie

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Re: There goes the neighbourhood...

Hey, maybe someone can convince Mr. Watson to turns the loose screw crew around and starts a new campaign, Carp War. :D
 

TilliamWe

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Re: There goes the neighbourhood...

I guess you guys are too young to remember that the Great Lakes fisheries were gonna be destroyed by the sea lamphrey.

Did the sky really fall?

I remember that, JB. Seems like "everything" is going to kill off something every year or two. ;)


Just to clarify, it is a FACT that these fish were brought to the US on purpose, by fisheries as "grass eating carp". DEFINATELY not in ballast water! They were in Arkansas, I believe, and they escaped due to flooding. Might have been the flooding in 1995? This was not caused by Commercial Vessels.
 

TilliamWe

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Re: There goes the neighbourhood...

When I lived in IL I used those things in my garden. GREAT fertilizer.

Absolutely. And there is a place in Havana, IL that has developed a supposedly waste free way of turning them into fetilizer. We don't hear much about it, though.
 

PW2

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Re: There goes the neighbourhood...

I guess you guys are too young to remember that the Great Lakes fisheries were gonna be destroyed by the sea lamphrey.

Did the sky really fall?

Maybe not, JB, but they continue to spend a ton of money up here controlling the lamphrey population. I have no idea how many people are employed directly in controlling (read that eradicating) that nasty critter, but if the St mary's river and Lake Superior regions are any indication, it's a lot.
 

JB

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Re: There goes the neighbourhood...

Maybe not, JB, but they continue to spend a ton of money up here controlling the lamphrey population. I have no idea how many people are employed directly in controlling (read that eradicating) that nasty critter, but if the St mary's river and Lake Superior regions are any indication, it's a lot.

Aha!! Jobs for outdoor people, thanks to the lamphrey. Now maybe the grass carp can do the same or better.
 

jay_merrill

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Re: There goes the neighbourhood...

Here in Louisiana, we have a rodent called a South American Nutria, which is an invasive species. Baically, they look like a rat that is the size of a large housecat.

They were originally imported from Argentina, by people who farm raised them for the fur trade. As usually happens with these sorts of ill advised importations, many of them got loose and they took hold in the wild. The problem with Nutria, is that they are voracious plant eaters and they destroy the marshlands that are so critical for maintenance of the ecosystem, not to mention hurricane protection.

We tried the tactic of encouraging their use as a food item. While they are rodents, they live in a natural habitat (as in, not cities, sewers, etc.) and eat clean plant life. In that sense, they aren't much different than the rabbits that they have been compared to, in terms of taste. Given the view that most people have of eating someting that looks like a rat, however, this program didn't get too far.

Eventually, the state of Louisiana opened a program to eradicate Nutria, by offering a bounty on them. The system that was put into place involved paying as much as $4.00 for each Nutria tail turned into our Dept. of Wildlife & Fisheries. This program is ongoing and is, I believe, supported with Federal dollars.

The reults of the program have been good, According to a little research that I did on the matter, annual taking of Nutria tends to be about 300,000, with some years closer to 400,000. More importantly, we have reduced out Nutria impacted areas from 80,000 acres to about 23,000 acres. I can attest, simply from the standpoint of being in the bayou a lot, that their numbers have been reduced by a very large margin. I used to see them swimming across the canals frequently and these days, I see them much less often.

Obviously, Carp and Nutria are two different "critters" and the problem with Carp is much different, but I wonder if a bounty program might help. All programs have their ups and down, but ours has worked pretty well. It has also provided economic stimulous, in that it has provided income to people who have long traditions in trapping. Who knows, something similar might work with the fish.



???
 

BWR1953

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Re: There goes the neighbourhood...

...Obviously, Carp and Nutria are two different "critters" and the problem with Carp is much different, but I wonder if a bounty program might help. All programs have their ups and down, but ours has worked pretty well. It has also provided economic stimulous, in that it has provided income to people who have long traditions in trapping. Who knows, something similar might work with the fish.
Yeah, after viewing some YouTube videos online with these "flying" carp, I couldn't help but wonder if a bounty would help. One video had guys in fishing boats shooting the fish with a bow & arrow while the fish were in the air. Some of it was really funny when the fish were flying into the boats.
Looked like great sport, but hardly effective on a mass scale.

Now... if a pair of boats with a large net spread between them rolled forward together, it wouldn't be long before LOTS of carp would be removed. Get a fleet of those boats working an area and I bet a sizeable impact could be made.
 

gonefishie

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Re: There goes the neighbourhood...

Funny you brought up the Nutria. I watched an episode of Lawman the other night and the Jefferson Parish swat team was riding in the back of a pickup truck along a canal. They were shooting the Nutria with 22 cal rifle equipped with silencer. Those guys were quite good hitting small targets from a moving vehicle.
 

gonefishie

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Re: There goes the neighbourhood...

Now... if a pair of boats with a large net spread between them rolled forward together, it wouldn't be long before LOTS of carp would be removed. Get a fleet of those boats working an area and I bet a sizeable impact could be made.

I proposed that idea but they didn't accepted it and I can understand why. Netting would also adversly affect the game fish population that we want to protect. The carps in the shipping canal made it there via the Illinois river from the mighty Mississippi. Unless you can net every single carp from these 3 bodies of water, the threat is still there. This one is a head scratcher fellas.

BTW, I heard that scientists are working on genetically mutated musky that is polution resistant and only eat asian silver carp. just kidding.
 
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