Thickened polyester or epoxy for rebonding hull-deck joingt

[CrazyJ]

I have some separation of the hull and deck on a McKee craft foam filled hull. I think the original adhesive probably set incorrectly, and now around the whole boat there is around a 3/16" gap. I've attached a cross section below.

I think I need to fill the gap then put a strip of glass tape to provide more strength. I am evaluating several options for filling the gap.

First of all, I think I need to use a caulk gun, or some type of injector, to get resin inside the gap. I've heard about cutting the corner off a freezer bag or using a putty knife, but I'm not very confident either of these methods will work. So here are the options I'm thinking of:

- West Six10 (http://westsystem.com/ss/new-six10-epoxy-adhesive/) ... Comes in a caulk tube and should do the trick. Pros: simple, Cons: expensive @ $20/6oz tube, not as strong as 105 epoxy with milled fibers

- Bondo Polyester Resin Jelly (http://www.jamestowndistributors.com/userportal/show_product.do?pid=6115) plus west fillable caulk tubes (http://www.westmarine.com/1/1/16096-810-fillable-caulking-tubes-from-west-system.html) ... Pros: cheap, Cons: may be hard to get into caulk tube, weakest

- West 105 resin + 205 hardener + 403 milled fibers + west fillable caulk tubes ... Pros: strongest, probably easier get in caulk tube than jelly if I thicken afterwards, Cons: more expensive than jelly

Does anyone have any advise? Thanks!

 

[cheesegrits]

Re: Thickened polyester or epoxy for rebonding hull-deck joingt

I think I woukd be calling Mckee to see what they say. In your diagram are you talking about putting the mat on the outside of the hull? If so, I don't think mat is the way to go. Please post some pics so everybody can see what the issue looks like. Do not use the Bondo product as it will set up long before you can get it out of the tube, if you can even get it in the tube.

 

[DukesFin]

Re: Thickened polyester or epoxy for rebonding hull-deck joingt

I'm assuming you have some sort of rubrail that goes/will go over the area you are talking about putting the mat on, right?

I'd not use mat, but cloth tape instead. That's just me, but it will have a bit more strength.

I've used West System 105 resin, 15 "pumps", thickened with 404 or 405 filler (I can't remember which one right now) and chopped up cloth (pulled strands out of scrap cloth and cut into varying lengths from 2" down to 1/4" all mixed in a quart cup, then poured/scooped it into the re-fillable caulk tubes and had no problem at all. You need to mix in this order though: Resin/Hardener, then the filler, then the glass. The only "quirky" think about it is the strands of fiberglass really do their job and make it hard to pull a "bead" out of the caulk tube. It wants to pull the whole bead, so you just have to "work it" a bit.

 

[CrazyJ]

Re: Thickened polyester or epoxy for rebonding hull-deck joingt

McKee isn't in business. If they were, they'd presumably be taking care of this issue themselves.

I don't have pictures now, because the boat is 200 miles away, but I'll post some when I go see the boat.

Yes, cloth tape is what I'm going to use, my mistake. I already bought a 50' by 1.5" piece. The outer edges of the hull and deck where the tape will go is just raw ungelcoated fiberglass. Yes, a rub rail fits over the joint.

The west 403 glass fibers (http://www.jamestowndistributors.com/userportal/show_product.do?pid=2038) sound like they do the job of both thickening and strength without having to add extra chopped up glass mat. If the chopped mat is necessary though, I'll do that too.

Would this air caulk gun be advised?:

http://www.toolsdirect.com/campbell...n/p361192?source=gba_361192&CAWELAID=79595497

I just know my hands get a bit fatigued after pumping 5200 even over a couple of feet, and I'm trying to do this whole job before the epoxy sets. 18' boat.

 

[DukesFin]

Re: Thickened polyester or epoxy for rebonding hull-deck joingt

I doubt you will have any problems using a "normal" caulk gun, depending on how much of the tip you cut off. I went with a hole about 8mm and it did fine. I'd get 4 or 6 re-fillable tubes. They ARE re-usable, but when I got my 2, planning on re-using them, I wished I had picked up more so I could just throw them away after each tube. They were cheap anyway. I had to fill this:

That's my transom/motor well I had to fill. I used 4 different "tubes" to do just that (allow room for error!). The strands of glass sure will help, but I doubt it is necessary. I used it because of where I was working... The transom is not a place I was willing to take chances with.

 

[erikgreen]

Re: Thickened polyester or epoxy for rebonding hull-deck joingt

This doesn't sound quite right.

You have an even gap around the whole boat? Why?

If adhesive didn't set correctly then you'd have the edges touching but moving.

If there's a gap then some part of the boat (maybe the inner liner) has changed shape. Might want to find out why that is, instead of just fixing the symptom of the problem?

Erik

 

[drewpster]

Re: Thickened polyester or epoxy for rebonding hull-deck joingt

Is the deck moving? Mckee uses a liner correct? It is possible that the support under the deck has rotted and is collapsing causing the gap. Is anything moving when you walk on it. That scenario is unlikely but I would take a close look at the gunnels to see if they look like the inside edge is dropped lower than the outside.
It is also possible that the fit of the hull/ liner joint was not closed from the beginning. What prompted you to remove the rubrail? Are there other signs of a problem or were you just replacing the rubrail?

 

[CrazyJ]

Re: Thickened polyester or epoxy for rebonding hull-deck joingt

Nothing seems to flex. I'm not sure what you mean by a liner. I definitely want to get a better look at it. They day I noticed it I didn't realize the significance, and I didn't have a camera.

Here is a little background on this thread:

http://www.thehulltruth.com/mckee-craft-boats/258877-pulse-1800-hull-deck-joint.html

... and from a message I sent to someone about this issue:

- The hull and deck are separated completely around the boat, except at the back two corners. Probably a 1/8-3/16" gap.

- I have no idea how much water is in the hull or if the foam is wet or unbonded.

- The transom got wet because of this and the lamination at the top is a little soft. This is how we discovered the separation; when we were trying to figure out how water got in the transom. However jumping up and down on the engine doesn't flex the transom. We've drained the transom water.

- I don't think the gunnels or hull are warped. The gap is fairly consistent around the whole boat.

All of these things considered, is there any chance the boat is just a 'total loss' and I should give up? If not, how serious should I consider this problem? Is there anything I can inspect that I haven't inspected yet that could help you answer these questions?

If using resin, i like the idea of resin and milled fibers mixed together. What about the bondo resin jelly repair stuff? :
http://www.jamestowndistributors.com...ct.do?pid=6115

Also I think a strip of 1.5" fiberclass cloth around the whole boat would be good.

I was thinking about thinning some resin with acetone and soaking the top of the transom wood to harden it up.

Is polyester resin fine or is epoxy resin necessary?

Should I try to get the water out of the foam before the repair? Afterwards? Tilt boat on trailer? Air/vacuum/heat?

Thanks so much for your help!

Thanks guys for all of the help.

 

[erikgreen]

Re: Thickened polyester or epoxy for rebonding hull-deck joingt

I'm not sure you got a good response to this, so I thought I'd follow up.

From what the note from the previous owners said, this boat is in need of some serious work - probably you should check for rotted wood throughout the boat, remove all wet foam, glass in new wood structure, and otherwise make sure it's not going to further deteriorate from neglect.

Probably the cap is separated (the gap you're trying to fix) because the wood supports holding up the deck are rotted or swollen.

The cap is the least of the problems... if you seal it up you'll be sealing all the water inside the boat.

I'd think carefully if you want to fix the boat or not, and if not you might be able to plug the crack with something, but it'll recur when you get on the water.. the problem's not going to go away.

If the motor works and you like the boat otherwise, it may be worth repairing - post pics and questions here and we can set you on your way...

Erik

PS: You need to get all the water out of the boat. You can't dry it, vacuum it, or suck it out - none of these will really work. You need to physically remove all the wet wood and foam and replace what's needed. Sorry, but that's the truth.

 

[CrazyJ]

Re: Thickened polyester or epoxy for rebonding hull-deck joingt

I've posted an update today in the McKee forum:

http://www.thehulltruth.com/mckee-craft-boats/258877-pulse-1800-hull-deck-joint.html


Eric,

I didn't see your post before I posted today. My proposed method of drilling holes and letting everything dry out sounds less likely to work after reading your post. Is there really no way to dry out the foam? How would I even go about removing the foam or wood?

Please let me know if you'd like pictures of anything else.

 

[JohneeMcKee]

Re: Thickened polyester or epoxy for rebonding hull-deck joingt

CrazyJ or anyone,
Did you find a good solution to your hull/deck separation? I have a 2001, 17 McKee Craft with the same problem and I need to fix it.

Jack

 

[Yacht Dr.]

Re: Thickened polyester or epoxy for rebonding hull-deck joingt

Hello Jack..

Though the last post was in Feb..I assume you dug this up for a reason..

As far as " Hull/Deck" joints are considered for sealing/bonding..

Sealing is cleaning the gap As Good As humanly possible without lifting the deck .. then caulk with some 4200..
Sealed hull/decks can be removed in the future ( though might be a PITA ).

Bonding is using a resin/glass/filler to close the gap.
Bonded Hull/deck joints are more of a Final option.. ( If needed to remove the deck would require some Major oporations ).

I had a 67 30' Catalina .. I took a die grinder to the Hull/Deck .. filled/packed with West System epoxy to bond/seal. Though It will probably never be uncapped it did not leak from St.Thomas to Granada.

Its your personal choice..

YD.

 

[JohneeMcKee]

Re: Thickened polyester or epoxy for rebonding hull-deck joingt

Thanks YD I am looking to bond permanently to save the boat. It is a great boat for the keys.

Jack