Thinking about an old new vehicle. Thoughts please.

[oldjeep]

I'll be the dissenter. Buying a 5K vehicle as a tow rig is a crapshoot. You are likely buying someone else's problem and better plan on putting aside way more than 3K for the transition from 150K to 200K unless you have detailed maint records for the first 150K are capable of doing the maint yourself and willing to deal with random issues that crop up. I only buy new and then keep them for 150-200K, which is traditionally where they start having reliability issues and more expensive repairs.

 

[gm280]

So far no one has tried to dissuade me. It sounds like the main concern on these is the tranny which appears to be an $1800-$2k job if it goes. I understand ball joints, fuel pumps, oil pumps and things like that that are wear items and I know anything can happen. Any truck I'd consider would go to a mechanic I like and trust for a once over. Y'all think $3k would be enough to keep handy for repairs? I average 10k-15k a year so if I could find one with 150k on the clock 200k would be another three years away. The more I think about this the stupider I feel for paying so much for a fancy truck.

Incoop, I honestly don't know how mechanically inclined you are, but a transmission is so easy to repair that anybody that can turn a screw driver can fix or rebuild one. In fact I would seriously rather rebuild a transmission then an engine myself. A typical rebuild kit that includes all the clutches, steels, gaskets, "O" rings and seals cost around $100 dollars or so. And the absolute hardest part is removing the transmission and installing it back. If you can do that, you can repair most any transmission for a very small fraction of what they ask to rebuild one. Honestly! I have rebuilt a quite a few now and haven't come across one yet that I could repair for well less then $200 dollars including all parts and filter and transmission fluids/oils. Don't discount your abilities. JMHO!

 

[lncoop]

I knew there had to be at least one dissenter out there! Thanks everyone for helping me sort this out. Keep it coming!

 

[lncoop]

I'll be the dissenter. Buying a 5K vehicle as a tow rig is a crapshoot. You are likely buying someone else's problem and better plan on putting aside way more than 3K for the transition from 150K to 200K unless you have detailed maint records for the first 150K are capable of doing the maint yourself and willing to deal with random issues that crop up. I only buy new and then keep them for 150-200K, which is traditionally where they start having reliability issues and more expensive repairs.

Okay, a couple questions for you. First, 150k miler 4x4 Suburbans typically go for $2500 to $3k here because you can't swing a dead cat without hitting one. Also, vehicles just tend to last a lot longer down here, mainly due to the moderate climate I assume. Would any of those details soften your objection? I could eventually find one in that price range with 100k on a new or rebuilt motor. Would you be more willing to consider one then? Finally, for that $5k price point I could probably get something with 100k or so on original equipment from around 2003. Would you find that less objectionable?

 

[oldjeep]

Okay, a couple questions for you. First, 150k miler 4x4 Suburbans typically go for $2500 to $3k here because you can't swing a dead cat without hitting one. Also, vehicles just tend to last a lot longer down here, mainly due to the moderate climate I assume. Would any of those details soften your objection? I could eventually find one in that price range with 100k on a new or rebuilt motor. Would you be more willing to consider one then? Finally, for that $5k price point I could probably get something with 100k or so on original equipment from around 2003. Would you find that less objectionable?

All depends on your sensitivity to not getting where you are going. I frequently drive/tow through the wastelands of Iowa, North Dakota , Colorado and to the northern areas of MN where even a minor breakdown is a huge pain.

Main thing with buying any high mileage vehicle is knowing exactly what has been done to it - maint and any random repairs. Also means you need to spend a bunch of money up front doing any of the deferred maint so that it isn't a problem at random times. I've got 124K on my 09 Ram and don't have any concerns driving it anywhere because I know what state everything is in.

 

[oldjeep]

And just for a list of stuff that I'd want to be inspecting/replacing or know if it had been replaced on a 150K vehicle that was bought for 3K
1) Tires
2) Tierods, balljoints, swaybar ends, steering box
3) Shocks/struts
4) diff service
5) trans service with filter
6) transfercase service
7) plugs/wires/cap/rotor/coil/belts/tensioners - whatever the vehicle has - mine just has 16 plugs and on cylinder coils
8) radiator and fan clutch (likely fine but need to be inspected)
9) full brake job - pads/rotors/drums/hardware/ soft lines and maybe calipers depending on condition
10) fuel filter if applicable
11) throttlebody and sensor cleaning
12) possibly injector cleaning
13) unit bearings

Most of this isn't any big deal if you are handy and smart about shopping for parts, but almost all of it sucks if you are paying someone to do everything.

The vehicles that we have bought for the kids first cars have been in the 2-3K range and I always count on spending at least another $1500 getting them caught up on wear items.

 

[bruceb58]

Would you be more willing to consider one then? Finally, for that $5k price point I could probably get something with 100k or so on original equipment from around 2003. Would you find that less objectionable?

I would be more willing to buy the 2003 Suburban for $5K. 2003 was when GM had less issues with the transmission that GM 280 was mentioning. Tat being said, if you change the ATF regularly, don't shift from forward to reverse while the vehicle is moving, they should last a long time

Personally, I think you should keep your present vehicle. You have wrung it out already and you know most everything is good. It is so early on in its life that poor maintenance before you would not have hurt much.

I have no problem driving around a high mileage vehicle if I am the one that put on all the miles on it.

 

[thumpar]

We bought the 2003 Suburban about 4 years ago for $4300. It was the tow rig the whole time. Now my 2000 Yukon that I bought for $3900 is the tow rig. They both have done just fine. I would not be afraid to buy a $5k vehicle to tow with.

 

[TruckDrivingFool]

I'll be the dissenter. Buying a 5K vehicle as a tow rig is a crapshoot. You are likely buying someone else's problem and better plan on putting aside way more than 3K for the transition from 150K to 200K unless you have detailed maint records for the first 150K are capable of doing the maint yourself and willing to deal with random issues that crop up. I only buy new and then keep them for 150-200K, which is traditionally where they start having reliability issues and more expensive repairs.

A guy with the name oldjeep telling you to buy new, (snicker), but seriously

His list in post #26 is good and brings to mind the other big watch for I should of listed for these, Fuel filters need to be changed regularly (seems no one does) to help avoid/ease the wear on the expensive ($300) in tank pumps and the labor to replace them. My mech buddy swore he did his every 6000 miles religiously when had his.

 

[oldjeep]

Funny thing is that newer vehicles with the higher pressure injection systems don't have fuel filters other than the in tank sock around the fuel pump.

 

[TruckDrivingFool]

Funny thing is that newer vehicles with the higher pressure injection systems don't have fuel filters other than the in tank sock around the fuel pump.

I"ll be danged there's my new thing learned today, seems they quit serviceable fuel filters in 2006.

How long before you start having problems with the injectors?

 

[smokeonthewater]

I can tell you this.... I have had to go rescue two different friends multiple times who were pulling horse trailers with their brand new 2015 trucks.... My 99 with 350,000 miles rolled on down the road while the brand new ones sat on the side of the road with the computer refusing to ALLOW starting the engine... All cases were the result of a bad sensor.

So much for new being reliable.

 

[SilverSS07]

^^^ Yep. My old stuff just seems to keep on trucking. But I take care of it and fix anything that is needed myself. My friend's 2013 Ecoboost with 58,000 just puked a rod through the side of the block a few days ago. Ford wants 13,000 for a new motor. Another buddy bought a 2015 Silverado and it's been towed 5 times in the past year. He just sold it. Neighbor's 2013 2500 Dodge with a Cummins didn't get a computer update and shut off when he was towing his 43' 5th wheel. OP consider how much of the work you can or will do yourself. Stupid little things can cost a fortune if you are going to pay someone to fix them. If I didn't fix everything myself I'm not sure what I would do lol. Some things I've replaced on my 97 Expedition with 115,000 miles are- steering column, ac blend door, inner/outer tie rods, upper and lower ball joints, exhaust manifolds, shocks, ac compressor, idlers, tensioner, alternator, u joints, exhaust system, etc. Besides normal maintenance. In it's defense it needed most of those things when I bought it.

 

[SilverSS07]

Silver, the only real problem with any 4L60E is the Sun Shell gear. It strips the gear teeth out. So when, not if, that happens, simply replace it with a part called "The Beast" and forget about the transmission there after. I have replaced a few Sun shell gears for our own and many other folks' 4L60E transmissions and every time the problems is/was that Sun Shell gear stripped. A sub-standard design by GM. But the after market Sun Shell fixes it nicely. Otherwise the 4L60E is a very good transmission. JMHO!

Yes they can be built right. I'd much prefer a 80e though!

 

[keith2k455]

I tow with a 2003 escalade I bought 10 yrs old with 100k on it. Its a great truck.

I do say the 4l60 is what you need to look closely at. I don't remember what load you'd be towing, but a 2500 suburban or Yukon will have the unstoppable 4l80e. A rebuilt 4l60e will cost you 3500 to replace, about half that if you do the labor.

The tell tale sign is a 2-3 shift flare. Drive it, run it hard, give yourself room to get up to about 70 and get that 2-3 shift to happendix around 4000rpm. If it flares don't buy it. Also, bypassed Rear Air wouldnt qualify as well maintained to me.

 

[bruceb58]

I had a 2001 3/4T 4Wd Suburban that I bought new. For the short time I had it, was an awesome vehicle. Like others have said, the 4L80E is a great transmission. You can probably get a 3/4T a little cheaper too since it has a bigger engine. The good thing is that the 6.0L Chevy gets around the same fuel mileage as the Ford 5.4.

 

[lncoop]

I had a 2001 3/4T 4Wd Suburban that I bought new. For the short time I had it, was an awesome vehicle. Like others have said, the 4L80E is a great transmission. You can probably get a 3/4T a little cheaper too since it has a bigger engine. The good thing is that the 6.0L Chevy gets around the same fuel mileage as the Ford 5.4.

I'd love to get a 2500 and they do come up for sale fairly regularly, but based on what I've read they average about half the MPG of a Ford 5.4. I still might consider it, especially since I'd be saving a big chunk of change every month by getting rid of the payment and full coverage insurance.

 

[lncoop]

I'd love to get a 2500 and they do come up for sale fairly regularly, but based on what I've read they average about half the MPG of a Ford 5.4. I still might consider it, especially since I'd be saving a big chunk of change every month by getting rid of the payment and full coverage insurance.

Well, after reading a little more carefully it appears you're right Bruce, only a couple MPG worse on average. That would not be a big problem for me. Should have known you were correct.

 

[bruceb58]

I'd love to get a 2500 and they do come up for sale fairly regularly, but based on what I've read they average about half the MPG of a Ford 5.4. I still might consider it, especially since I'd be saving a big chunk of change every month by getting rid of the payment and full coverage insurance.

Get one with the 6.0. Maybe you are thinking of the 8.1? I have owned both the Suburban with the 6.0 and a Ford F-150 with a 5.4 and the MPG is almost the same.

 

[lncoop]

Get one with the 6.0. Maybe you are thinking of the 8.1? I have owned both the Suburban with the 6.0 and a Ford F-150 with a 5.4 and the MPG is almost the same.

Yeah, in my first search I probably didn't differentiate between the motor sizes. 6.0 2500 is sounding like the ticket if I can find the right combination of price, age and condition. I'm a long way from decided. It's not that I dislike the Expy, it's that I dislike the payment and just feel like such a chump. Plus, I gotta admit, I've always had an itch for a 3/4 ton truck. I'll continue to ponder.