Thinking about getting a much larger boat - seeking suggestions on what fits my needs

[ShoestringMariner]

Hey everyone, I’m considering moving from camping to weekending and some cruising/travel in a boat.

We live close to some of the best lakes and river systems in North America. There’s a 380k/250mi river system trek I’d like to do on my bucket list.

I’m hoping for suggestions on what I should be considering for boat size, drives and features I should look for. I’ve been seeing some 80s-90’s cruisers in my budget. These seem pretty old but any newer picks are getting more expensive and smaller. I’m ok with older if there’s reliability and reasonable comfort

Basic criteria I’d like to meet
- sleeps 2-4 people
- reasonable fuel efficiency (single drive over twins, better performing hull designs etc?) I don’t need fast.
- comfortable interior and exterior seating
- washroom/toilet
- kitchenette with fridge

trailer capability is not critical. We’d have it in a marina slip for the summer and pay to have it shipped.

we’d start out staying in the marina and doing short day outings until my experience and confidence in sailing a bigger vessel/navigating grows. If we have to start out smaller and move up from there, we can do that

Thanks in advance

 

[tpenfield]

Questions for you . . .

>>> Boating experience? I assume you have some

>>> Budget? You mention a budget, but not the amount.

>>> 2 People or 4? Certain boats could do 2 in the cabin and 2 out in the cockpit with a bimini/camper canvas. Others can do 4 in the cabin, but they are going to be heavier/bulkier boats.

>>> USA or Canada?

You should be thinking about 27-29 foot cruisers/sport boats

Older not does match up to reliability (newer does not either) . . . have the tool box and the spare parts drawer ready.

Fuel efficiency? Seriously . . . think about 1-2 mpg.

Go twin engines. Single engine on a medium-sized cruiser is just stupid. You won't save any appreciable amount of gas vs. twins.

I would look at some of these brands:

- Formula - 270 PC, 290 PC, 280 SS
- Sea Ray - Sundancer 27 - 29 foot
- Chaparral - I recall there being a 27 foot model back in the 1990's that had a nice open layout and also had an aft cabin. Just can't remember the model.
- Cruisers
- Regal
- Chris-craft

I/O (inboard/outboard) powered boats are going to be the most prevalent in that era (1980-90's) that fit a lower budget vs. outboard powered boats.

Keep in mind that you are looking at boats of approximately 30 years in age. The amount of maintenance/restoration along the way will be important. You will have to do a fair amount of searching & inspecting to find something in good shape that would not be just a shiny money pit.

 

[ahicks]

My vote:
Twins, and not for just redundancy. They're just as much about maneuvering in tight quarters. For drives, pretty sure I would go straight inboard, or with V-drives.

 

[Scott Danforth]

30-40 year old boats and reliability means you will need to restore the boat before you can use it. Even Ted has rebuilt his drives, interior and a bunch of fiberglass on a 20 year old boat. Im on a major re-hab of a 31 year old boat.

then again, you may come across a rare barn-find of a cruiser that was parked in a barn, the gentleman dies and the widow finally sells the boat after its been in storage for 20 years.

economy and power boating are a dichotomy. aint going to happen. if you want economy, get a boat with oars or a sail. a cruiser will burn between 0.5 and 1.5 gallons per mile depending on where the throttle is and what the load is.

many late 80's cruisers had twin cabins, or as Ted mentioned, camper canvas to allow people to sleep in the cockpit.
the Carver Montego line is one of them, along with some Cruisers, Chaparrals, etc.

definitely get twins if you are in a pocket cruiser 25' or larger. you will need the redundancy when something breaks. blowing a gear box 5 miles out and relying on a fellow boater to tow you in can ruin a day.

get towing insurance, not the towing clause of your current insurance that says you pay out of pocket and they reimburse you. separate and dedicated towing insurance from companies such as Tow Boat, or Sea Tow, etc.

Experience.....Ted touched on it..... what seamanship experience do you have? how about mechanical aptitude. your looking at 30-40 year old boats that were designed to last about 25 years. so systems will need attention while you are on the water. Weather happens. I have been boating since a child and I have puckered the upholstery a few times when the water goes from calm to sea state 4 in a hurry.

250 miles will be between 200 and 450 US gallons of fuel, more if you are going against current or wind

if you just want to make the journey, I would suggest chartering a really nice boat with an experienced captain. it would be less money than buying and repairing a 30-40 year old boat for this trip.

paying to have a boat shipped...... I would look into the cost of shipping, any boat that will sleep 4 will need a permit in nearly every state as you will be in the 10' wide category. in some states, that involves pilot cars.

 

[jonesg]

what about deisel powered displacement hull or lobstah boat conversion.

Inland cruising in the UK is mostly done in longboats, barges aka narrowboats.
The interiors are often the same as a motorhome.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Narrowboat

 

[mr 88]

For what you want to do I agree with most of the replies , twin inboards or V drives , out drives if only as a last resort. I would be looking at a 27 -30 ft with either a aft cabin or camper back. As noted any boat in that size range should have twins and your fuel mileage at cruise should be 1 to 1.75 . Have a 27 with 305's and get 1.3 .Have a 32 with 454s and get 1 mpg at cruise.Not sure what you mean by getting it shipped ? as in when your done with your trip its one way and you trailer it back. Looking at a boat that if you buy it has to be trailered to you. Or in the offseason you want it trailered to your house.. No on the diesel unless you know a diesel mechanics on the waterways. They will cost considerably more right off the get go and a displacement hull like that might top out at 10-12 mph which is okay if all you have is time on your hands. If your in the UK everything might be different as far as recommendations and your inquiry. That's all foreign to me as far as what's available and fuel prices along with finding a diesel mechanic on the waterways.

 

[eric102]

Sounds almost like what the wife and I did nearly 30 years ago. We went from a 16' bow rider that we stuffed with camping gear to a new 27' SeaRay Sundancer that we still have. Having a 8 1/2' beam and on a trailer really opens up cruising possibility's although we did make several trips of 300 plus miles on the water. I prefer a single engine for ease of maintenance, I'm a big guy and need the elbow room to work on it and all the other systems in the engine compartment.

Have never needed a tow (maintenance, maintenance, maintenance!) but I do have towing insurance just in case.

With the 454 big block and Bravo 2 OD it cruises at about 25 knots getting 1 to 1 1/2 MPG depending on load, current, wind, etc.

Sleeps 2 comfortably in the V-berth and two more kids or smaller adults in the aft berth and could probably sleep another 1 or 2 under the camper canvas in the cockpit . We've been out several weeks at a time and what a pleasure it is to not have to pitch the tent and sleep on the ground!

 

[Captain Caveman]

I guess that I would be concerned about being on a long stretch of river without a redundant (twin) motor. A strong current can easily throw you into a river bank or into the path of an approaching barge/boat going upstream.

 

[cptbill]

The admiral and I cruised Pittsburgh to Cincinnati and Pittsburgh to Morgantown in a 2855 Bayliner we bought new 7.4L bravo 3 drive, that was back in 1999 - 2004 we stayed in marinas and lightly previsioned along the way. Then we moved to FL bought a 2000 330 Larson Cabrio twin 5.7L GSI VP's with DP-sm drives and a 5k genset, did a lot of maintenance and repairs but not to the point of rebuilding then did the Fl loop. Hudson to Ft Meyers then across the Okeechobee water way to the keys then Naples then home. Took a little over 3 weeks the way we did it but great fun. On that trip we anchored out once the rest was marinas and restaurants', both boats were comfortable enough for the two of us but I will say twins and a gen. made things a little nicer. With the price of new boats these days there's nothing wrong with buying an older boat and making it what you want as long as you make it mechanically sound also What you need for cruising is up to you but you do need things like belts, hoses, impellers, tools, hose clamps and some tools and don't forget spare filters.

 

[ShoestringMariner]

Wow, thank you all for your thoughts. Ive got a lot to read through here. I will try to respond to some of the questions asked and more in a little bit

We are in the preliminary stages of fact finding and certainly won’t be doing anything this year.. I have been looking at 26 to 30 foot boat ads. They seem to have all the features I’m looking for. Sleeping 4 isn’t an absolute necessity. For the most part it will just be the Mrs Admiral and myself. And a little dog. Typing that, I just realized how bringing a dog along is going to have it’s issues.

back to some of the questions; I am mechanically inclined. And I do realize that buying an older boat is going to require a certain level of refurbishment. Hopefully that means there will be reliability beyond the rebuild. And good to know about towing insurance and twins versus single drives.

My boating experience is all small craft. 16 foot aluminum bow rider is what we have right now. All Fair-weather experience.

Shipping; I would have a transportation company or marina move the boat to their location. If the boat was already located at a marina within driving distance, I would see about purchasing dry dock storage and then a slip once the freshening up was done. (If the marina allowed a little bit to fix up while in drydock. I know some do around here )

location and bucket list trip;
I’m currently located in southern Ontario, surrounded by three of the great lakes. The trip I’d like to take is from Lake Ontario to Georgian bay in Lake Huron through the Trent-Severn River system. I have read that The trip takes about a week. However I’d like to take two or three weeks to do it.

 

[ahicks]

Some world class cruising available up in the Georgian Bay area. Check out the "Whalesback Islands" area. It was a popular destination for us. Many protected places to anchor overnight in complete privacy. A break down in this area would NOT be cool. Speaking of cool, frost in August wasn't too unusual. Nice because it killed off the black flies and 'skeeters....

Easy to kill a week in the area, SO much to explore. Good charts/nav equipment required. Shallow rock just pop up out of nowhere.

 

[ShoestringMariner]

Some world class cruising available up in the Georgian Bay area. Check out the "Whalesback Islands" area. It was a popular destination for us. Many protected places to anchor overnight in complete privacy. A break down in this area would NOT be cool. Speaking of cool, frost in August wasn't too unusual. Nice because it killed off the black flies and 'skeeters....

Easy to kill a week in the area, SO much to explore. Good charts/nav equipment required. Shallow rock just pop up out of nowhere.

I love the area and waters inland from there. Parry Sound, Killarney, French and Pickerel Rivers...my favourite places. I’d love to learn how to navigate through there. And find the island with the abandoned 57 Chevy on it.

 

[ShoestringMariner]

The Admiral is semi-keen on the idea, so we might entertain moving the budget out 10-20k. to get something needing less work.

I do like the idea of twins and a nice open deck or a well laid out seating area topside. I'm also seeing some nice lving spaces inside though I suspect that the really nice layouts inside mean big wide beams and therefore very thirsty cruising(?)

So more questions if I may;

1) There seems to be a preference of Twn Inboards or V drives over Outdrives. Can someone give me the coles notes on what the differences are and why outdrives are the least popular? (Or is there a sticky?)

2) Does a narrower beam equate to noticable fuel effciency? I realize sail is the thing for maxmum efficiency but we are not sporty people and I dont have years to learn the craft. hope that isnt said in ignorance. I'm sure there will be a season or two of learning to pilot a larger boat.

3) What is typically involved in doing a marine survey and rough costs?

4) Here's where the questions might get silly; Is buying a classic glass or wood cruser (fully restored with positve survey) a foolish endeavour? I'm a sucker for classic lines, wood finishes (mahogany, teak) etc. Or am I just asking for a neverending maintenance nightmare? Are more modern systems so much easier to use and mantain? Are newer hull designs so much better in stability, fuel efficiency etc.? I'm guessing this question here could be a thread of its own

 

[tpenfield]

1) You typically find inboard engines on boats of 11 meters (35 ft) and up. Sounds like you will still be in the outdrive (sterndrive) crowd.

2) Narrower beam allows for the design of the hull to have a more pronounced 'V' shape which improved rough water handling. They typically are less fuel efficient . . . but there is no such thing as fuel efficiency in boats. Wider beam often results in a rougher ride.

3) A marine surveyor goes through the boat top to bottom, bow to stern and writes a report outlining any major issues and minor recommendations. The cost for a boat of the size you are considering would be about $700 ish. Often a second person is hired to inspect and do some tests on the engines.

4) You can find more classic lines in a modern boat. Don't go for a wooden boat. The fiberglass boats of the era you are looking at will have plenty of wood in them to be mindful of. No need to add more issues with a wood hull.

 

[ShoestringMariner]

1) Sounds like you will still be in the outdrive (sterndrive) crowd.

Thanks

I looked up V drives and Outdrives. I can see how V drive seems simpler and more protected from potential damage.

But generally speaking, could outdrives be considered to be reliable if we had a full inspection/maintenance on these units prior to putting the boat into service? Or are they like any automotive transmission where are questionable after X amount of use/miles regardless of service & inspection?