thinking of covering my 40 foot wooden boat with some type of covering

crab bait

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Re: thinking of covering my 40 foot wooden boat with some type of covering

PRETTY NEET.. dems good boats.. <br />see them type alot in LEWES,DEL..<br /><br />got $ 500.oo ..?? we'll chip-in.. an go out on her.. catch us some 'big-eye-fish'!<br /><br />lifetime experiance..
 

Hawkeye1

Petty Officer 2nd Class
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Re: thinking of covering my 40 foot wooden boat with some type of covering

We got a bunch of fellows from the hunt club to fish 3 days on her the 1st week of june. I will probally only do one of them and do the rest on my own boat. Only 20 mile run to the gulfstream from Hatteras so I don't feel too tight in my 23'er. I can fish 5 days for the cost of one on that boat. Nice break about mid week to ride the "Big EYE" for a change and dont have to clean a boat or make any rigs either. Never fails it will be slick calm that day and choppy to rough the rest of the days. <br /><br />40 foot owens, where are you located at? Didn't mean to hijack your thread talking with crab. But sort of related.
 
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Re: thinking of covering my 40 foot wooden boat with some type of covering

To all who responded to my question, I thank you and promise to respond to your specific questions when time allows. I have not had a chance to access this forum for some time but will respond to questions soon. <br /><br />Thanks for the links and the sharing of information. I will follow up on all the advice you all provided me. To answer a few questions, I am in Houston Texas, saltwater and heat. The boat is dry and does not take on water, I was told that wooden boats should take on some water, but this one does not. When it rains I do get water in from the top side. <br /><br />Let me ask this question? Will I be adding life to her if I cover the top of the boat? I would cover the deck and wood rails? I could cover her with glass overlapping the sides of the boat stopping mid top board, once going over the side, and leave the rest wooden. Will this preserve her? Keep rain water out of the boat while leaving the bottom wooden, to breath?
 

crab bait

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Re: thinking of covering my 40 foot wooden boat with some type of covering

talk to arch davis .. he's a NEW ZELANDER who lives in MAINE.. he's a wooden boat designer ,plans maker ,& builder.. <br /><br />i talked to him before an have a set of his plans.. he's a good guy..
 

Capt. Bob

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Re: thinking of covering my 40 foot wooden boat with some type of covering

FYI Salt water intrusion pickles the wood against rot. Many freshwater wooden boat owners introduce salt into their bilges for that reason. Old salts flush their decks with salt water for protection. Any freshwater intrusion is rot looking for a place to happen. Rot needs freshwater to grow. <br />Most rot is found around deck seams, windows, and a variety of places that fresh water leaks into the boat. Most rotten planks are not in the bottom, but in the hull sides, deck seams or below leaking windows in the cabin sides. <br />Antifreeze stops wood rot. Some use it in their bilges to prolong an already rotted hull.<br /><br />No fool proof system of laminating your old wooden hull has been found. I have owned two large Chris Craft wooden boats and an Owens Flagship. I would never do more than paint them with the proper paint system after complete replacement of all rotten wood. <br />Smiths CPS is a preventative for wood rot in new or dry wood. He says it will displace moisture in old wood but I question that.<br />Good luck, wooden boats are not for everyone but if you like spending time working on your boat as I did in the past (three woodies and a million hours of restoration) , it is gratifying. <br />Since I have grown older (and wiser), I have decided to spend more time using my boat.
 

BillP

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Re: thinking of covering my 40 foot wooden boat with some type of covering

40footOwens,<br />Comprehensive research will prove that wooden boats, can, have been and are being successfully sheathed with glass or wood. It is WELL documented and goes back at least 40 yrs...even before W.E.S.T. came into the picture. <br /><br />Find and read the book "Covering Wooden Boats With Fiberglass" by Allen Viatses. He has several books out and this was the first. He is THE expert on successfully covering old wood boats with glass. There is NO other individual that has more expertise on this subject. You will find his writings to be backed up with decades of sheathing large vessels, testing and info...dispelling many common myths.<br /><br />For the record, 20+ yrs ago I personally sheathed two sailboats (42' & 32')with the wood epoxy saturation technique. I just read a few months ago that the 42' sailed from Florida to Alaska last year. As far as I'm concerned sheathing is the only economical and long lasting way to bring life back to a wooden boat. Your Owens (Aruba model?)is a grand candidate for this.
 
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Re: thinking of covering my 40 foot wooden boat with some type of covering

Steelespike,<br /><br />I did research prior to buying my boat; I am the type of person that believes in finding what fits me and keep it, maintaining it and every so often investing in it breathing extended life into it. I spent time at the boat repair yards here on the Gulf coast doing research and surprising found as many glass boats with rot and hull problems as wooden boats. The old times that work on those boats told me that glass does not equal no problems (long term) but does equal less upkeep (long term). Bottom line, those guys at the repair yards that had been around big boats for many years pointed me toward a wooden boat, provided I was committed to upkeep. Those same old timers are against covering a wooden boat with glass. I got no help from them regarding covering a wooden boat, thus this question to this forum. <br /><br />Hawkeye1<br /><br />Thanks for information, it is good to know that glassing over is being done in the Carolina’s, and works. Do you know if they fasten the glass to the boat? The process I am aware of fastens glass matting to the boat with nails, staples, whatever works. Next resin is applied to the mat. Next fiberglass fabric is applied over the matting, fastened, and the process repeated until the desired thickness is achieved. What I was hoping to discover is a product that sprays on or is applied directly to the wood that could replace the glass matting and fabric. I would be interested in more details on how they do it in the Carolinas. I am planning to take a trip to Savanna Georgia in Jun and can ask around at that time.<br /><br />Capt. Bob<br /><br />You helped me address the question I have been tolling with these past few months. As she sits out of the water on land, I covered 80% of the boat with tarps. When a Texas size rain happens, 7 -12 inches in one day, she fills up with about 4 gallons of rain water. I suck out the water with a shop. If I were to add salt to hull, would this address my immediate concern of standing water in the hull? Could I add salt and let the water stand?<br /><br />Also, you are dead on regarding fresh water leaks. I have rain water coming in around windows and decks seams. I do not yet have rot but water gets in the boat. <br /><br />Hawkeye1<br /><br />Thanks for the boric acid tip, at this time, I do not have rot problems, I do get rain in but shop vac it out to keep her dry.<br /><br />BillP<br /><br />I have read and own the book "Covering Wooden Boats With Fiberglass" by Allen Viatses, this book is what triggered my question about covering a wooden boat with glass. The concept in the book makes sense and I have bought into the idea. What I am looking for is someone like you; you actually covered 2 boats 20+ years ago. When you covered your boats, did you fasten the glass to the wood? I would really appreciate more information on what steps you took. <br /><br />All,<br /><br />After much thought on the subject, my plan of attack is as follows. I have a 1961 31 foot Christ Craft Constellation that requires some rot and needs to have wood replaced and basically a total overhaul from top to bottom. I have no love for this boat and plan on bringing her back to original specifications. I will use the 31 foot as a run about and the Owens as a live aboard. I will make a decision regarding the Owens after working on the Constellation. Bottom line: wood all the way for the Constellation and a to-be-determined on the Owens.<br /><br />Thanks
 

BillP

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Re: thinking of covering my 40 foot wooden boat with some type of covering

40footOwens,<br /><br />Vaitses has proven by years of covering boats that his method works. I would have done it exactly his way except that method is difficult to do without extra hands around. Wood covering is not as good but is easy to do and will last a LONG time if you do it right.<br /><br />I covered those two sailboats with 1/4" AB exterior ply. The wood was fastened with 1" bronze ring nails and also glued down with 5:1 epoxy (60 gals total) thickened with WEST cotton linen fibers. The nails were mainly needed to pull the wood down to meet the curves and hold until the resin kicked. The size of nail was dictated by what I could easily hold for nailing. Anything less than 1" long will result in hitting your finger before the nail! I did NOT use glass as a final skin. I kept each boat approx 4 years and neither showed problems. What it did do was dry the wood up and cause additional ballast to be installed on the 42'r (24k lb cutter). The 32'r was a sharpie and had zero ballast. I did both boats without help.
 
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Re: thinking of covering my 40 foot wooden boat with some type of covering

BillP,<br /><br />Your application of using plywood over the existing wood hull, in my mind, is equal to what Viatses did when he fastened the glass directly to the boat hull. Viatses believed that the problem with glass over wood was that the wood moved and the glass did not which caused the glass to separate from the wood. This separation could contributed to cracking of the glass which allowed water to seep in and rot the wood. Viatses solved this problem by using matt fiberglass with fiberglass woven fabric. Viatses believed that the problem and the cause of an unsuccessful fiberglass application over wood was the woven fabric. To overcome this defect in the process, he used chopped matt fiberglass with the woven fabric fiberglass. One over the other.<br /><br />Your plywood application did what the matt glass did for Viatses; prevented the water from seeping through any cracks. <br /><br />According to Viatses 2 things must be done correctly to give a boat many more years of life. 1 -The matt glass must be used and is key to a successful application. The matt glass is what eliminates the number of possible places that water can seep into cracks. The matt eliminates those places. 2 – You must fasten the glass to the boat, to allow movement.<br /><br />What I think, is that when you epoxy and nailed the plywood to the hull, you allowed for movement which solved half the problem. When you used plywood, you eliminated the possible places that water could find its way to the hull, if the glass cracked. I like the plywood over the hull rather than the glass matt and glass woven fabric over that hull. The plywood will be easier to work with. The big question I have was how you covered the plywood. In your last response; you stated that you did not use glass. To clarify for me, what did you apply to the exposed plywood? If I could roll or paint resin over the wood, and it would not crack. I may have found my answer. What I would really like to avoid is slopping the resin onto glass as is required in Viatses process. This sounds like a really sloppy process. I have worked with resin and glass and it can get you if you are not on top of what you are doing.<br /><br />Thanks for sharing your experience.
 

BillP

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Re: thinking of covering my 40 foot wooden boat with some type of covering

Agree that fastening the wood is same as fastening the glass. Vaitses is very serious about making sure you glass 100% of the hull and leave no bare spots. You didn't mention it but for those following this thread Vaitses quit taking the paint off and just glassed over everything...years later he found this to be ok. Vaitses wrote about this stuff for years in pubs like the National Fisherman before writing his book.<br /><br />For the outer surface I first rolled multiple coats of thinned epoxy to fill the grain and then 2-3 coats of unthinned resin for the final topcoats. I don't remember how thick but probably between 30-40 mils. This never showed delamination or bleed throughs. When cutting the wood parts I was careful about voids and coated all edges before application. I did a LOT of research before doing this and wouldn't hesitate to do it again. <br /><br />Your Owens is basically flat and applications would be a piece of cake. The only real decision to me is what wood to use...marine or exterior. If your pockets are deep go for the marine but exterior will bend easier (you know this right?). Epoxy is a must and even the cheap stuff (aka non structural) would be fine. I'm currently buying 2:1 laminating epoxy for $27 a gal. in 7.5 gal pails.
 
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Re: thinking of covering my 40 foot wooden boat with some type of covering

BillP,<br /><br />Thanks again for the info. I was going to ask the question of what type of wood to use. Cost is not a concern so I will go with the best for the application. Let me ask a question that may have a simple answer but none the less, why don’t boat owners use treated wood for boat repair? Treated wood does not rot. I suspect that the Arsenic that is pressured into the wood is considered toxic for marine application. <br /><br />I believe that I will try this plywood and epoxy/resin process to my 31 foot Christ Craft. I will learn the process on the 31ft boat and take my experience to the Owens. I will resin coat the end of the wood at the cuts and use chopped matt fiberglass in-between the seams. I might even taper the ends of the plywood to make the chopped matt fiberglass (between seams) even, when sanded. I will apply the epoxy to the plywood as you described and finally paint. I anticipate that this process will be faster than, and possibly as durable, as the Vaitses method. This method allows me some leeway to apply fiberglass for strength in areas that concern me, such as at the chime boards, (when the boat was lifted out of the water, I got a sick feeling to see all the weight of the boat on four points of my boat. I will want to strengthen that area. <br /><br />One more question and I may be done with my search for information. What would happen if a wooden boat was covered over only with resin? Would the planks, as they expanded and shrunk crack the resin? I think that is the answer and base it on the fact that Vaitses fiberglass, and your plywood method cover over the wood planks.<br /><br />When I start the project, I will share pictures via Ibaots, if possible. If anyone out there can tell me how to attached pictures. Or set up a free URL in on the Internet, I will track and status my project for all interested to follow.<br /><br />Thanks
 

BillP

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Re: thinking of covering my 40 foot wooden boat with some type of covering

I think you will find putting mat in the gaps is a big hassle and not required. Epoxy is an excellent gap filler and will do the job without glass. You CAN add glass fibers to make putty if strength is a question. I butted the joints and they held perfectly.<br /><br />Just putting epoxy over wood will work on certain construction...strip, double planked and plywood. Gluvit is excellent for this and I used it on a 31' International 500 sloop (strip planked)with excellent results. Gluvit is more rubbery than any other epoxy resin I've used so it must be formulated to stretch. If your Owens is double planked (seems to me some were) it will probably work without wood. You may also want to consider covering only the bottom in wood.<br /><br />About pressure treating. I had this same question in reference for building a 50' ply sharpie and consulted with Tom Colvin (experienced and well known naval architect). Tom told me yes it can be used with epoxy only and to use marine grade PT and air dry it for 6 months. At that time (4 yrs ago) marine pt ply was only available overseas and had to be ordered for big bucks. <br /><br />I took his lead (on a small scale) and currently doing stringers, floors and transom in an old "classic" glass, ALL in pt wood. After drying the wood it really soaks up 10% thinned epoxy. My test samples cannot be pried off the wood and actually lift the outer ply off instead of peeling the resin off.
 

Hawkeye1

Petty Officer 2nd Class
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Re: thinking of covering my 40 foot wooden boat with some type of covering

Check out this link. These guys have pictures of work in progress of glassing a exsisting wood boats. Might give them a call if you are still interested.<br /><br /> http://www.crownmarine.com/portfolio.htm
 
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