Thoughts on installing tilt/trim to 125 force

[73 Dolphin]

Here's the situation.I bought a "73 Dolphin Bow rider with a Force 125 outboard.

The guy before me had installed a non standard trim motor (different mounting bracket,but motor and hoses the same) , mounting it on an aluminum bracket behind the transom. At some point is corroded out and the top motor housing is separated from the base and is full of rust.

The important thing is that i have now purchased a used tilt trim motor with the body and Hydraulics attached. I guess it's a complete unit.

The motor on the boat now - the old broken one - has 3 wires and the new one has 2 wires.

Question 1/.
I seem to remember some post saying that there is a risk of fire using a two wire on what used to be a 3 wire system. Can anyone let me know how to go about it?

Question 2/.
Can I get away with mounting the new trim motor to the existing hoses ( they match) or should I replace the whole unit - bearing in mind the tilt does not work, so I can't lift the motor?

If the complete swap is better - how do i lift the motor. I read a post about using a fence post tied to the motor and just using leverage.

Thanks to all.

Paul

 

[73 Dolphin]

Re: Thoughts on installing tilt/trim to 125 force

Some more info:

The motor is a 125 force. It is white and has 1995 stamped on the block at the back, so I guess it's a '95.

The old pump motor has one of each : blue,green,black wires.

The black goes to the battery neg terminal and the blue and green go to a rocker switch.

It's a 3 contact rocker switch. the Green at top and red at bottom.

There is a light blue ( perhaps used to be purple - it's purple behind switch away from elements and sun) wire connected to the middle of the three contacts on the rocker switch. This last wire is not connected to the pump motor - don't know if it used to be, or should be.

The new pump motor just has blue and green - no black.

Hope this helps.

 

[73 Dolphin]

Re: Thoughts on installing tilt/trim to 125 force

Okay so I've some research on the web - other forums,general web searches,etc.

Seems the answer is that if I plan to use this 2 wire trim motor ,I need to install
solenoids as there is no ground wire , and running direct to switch will cause a fire!

IF I AM RIGHT and please tell me if I am not - how do i know if I already have the solenoids? All my web searches gave item numbers but never an image.

The only reason i think they may be there is that the mount for this trim motor matches the motor ( 3 bolt) so i figure this type motor may have been on originally.

Does anybody have an image of what they look like?

Thanks so much. And yes - I should buy a manual!

 

[Frank Acampora]

Re: Thoughts on installing tilt/trim to 125 force

If it's white, it is a 1985 or earlier engine.

If it is a two wire motor, you must use solenoids because each wire changes function (positive or ground) depending upon direction of rotation of the motor. So: if up is activated, green is grounded through one solenoid and blue it energised positive 12 volts through the other solenoid. For down, green is activated through its solenoid and blue is now grounded. Without the solenoids you can not change wire function and the motor will not work or will work in one direction only.

If solenoids were originally installed, they will be two square black plastic boxes mounted somewhere on the front of the engine pan near where the battery cables enter.

If you do not have solenoids installed, you must get not only the sloenoids themselves but also the sockets. wiring looks complex but is actually simple.

Solenoids and sockets can be had for cheap at the local U-PULL-IT junkyard. They can be found in older Buicks, Chevys, and some Fords. Brand doesn't matter as long as they are 5 terminal solenoids. The nice thing is that they are waterproof while the stock ones were not. You will find it necessary to re-wire the sockets so if you do get them from the junkyard, get a couple extra and leave at least 6 inches of wire on them.

If you decide to go that route, come back and I will describe the wiring and hopefully include some photos too.

 

[73 Dolphin]

Re: Thoughts on installing tilt/trim to 125 force

Thanks for the info. I will get to the scrap yard asap.

The motor thing is confusing. Chrysler/Force/Mercury/US Marine...etc
It is white. The carbs have 83 stamped on them , but the block definitely
has 1995 stamped in it, prop side lower. So maybe it got replaced?

You know better than I , but just in case it helps, that what it says.

 

[wajajaja02]

Re: Thoughts on installing tilt/trim to 125 force

I use Helga solenoids with sockets, I have spares, and the wiring diagram for my 89 125 force, but its under the tarp in the yard on the boat, email me and Ill dig it out tomorrow and fax it to you.

 

[73 Dolphin]

Re: Thoughts on installing tilt/trim to 125 force

Thanks - sent you a PM with my email.
brand new to the forum - so i don't know how to email you.
hope this is good.

 

[RRitt]

Re: Thoughts on installing tilt/trim to 125 force

2w motors draw about 15A. If you are clever then you can wire them to a 6 contact switch (DPDT, momentary contacts, center off). The motor does not have a common ground. In fact, the motor is electrically isolated from the rest of your engine. It reverses direction by completely reversing polarity.

The relays serve two purposes. First, they allow a standard switch (like the one you already have) to control the system. The relays create a full 2wire flip-flop with just one control signal. Second they keep the high-amperage cables short. If your cables are too long then sometimes not enough voltage reaches the motor and your system bogs down.

 

[73 Dolphin]

Re: Thoughts on installing tilt/trim to 125 force

Thanks for the info.Yes the trim motor is completely separate from the (outboard) motor. I wonder if it would be possible to run the wiring completely away from the outboard to the switch with all components in line (mid-way perhaps - to lessen current loss?)

I am completely clueless about solenoids.The idea of running to the u-pull-it and taking some off old cars is beyond me as I wouldn't know where to look or what to take off! ( I thought they were the things that engaged the starter?)

I do know what a DPDT switch looks like though,so i suppose that's a start.

Hopefully I'll end up with a simple wiring diagram and list of parts that i can order - new is fine. I do know how to use a soldering iron and connectors.
Just need a suggestion of some suppliers or part numbers.

Thanks again.

 

[RRitt]

Re: Thoughts on installing tilt/trim to 125 force

The wiring is pretty simple either way.
http://home.swfla.rr.com/netsvc/trim_wiring.pdf

You want to keep your relays in the engine. You already have high amperage cables for the starter and you will want to use them as the power source for your trim. Voltage drop across cables needs to be minimized.

In the mid-90's mercury sold a 2w oildyne kit as a repair for prestolite pumps. I am pretty sure that I still have the wiring harness & relays from one of those kits laying around in the shop. If I get a chance maybe I'll look for it and see if there are any instructions about how to get from the console switch to the outboard.

 

[73 Dolphin]

Re: Thoughts on installing tilt/trim to 125 force

Thanks - the wiring diagrams really help!