Through-bolted versus welded construction on an alum trailer.

[cyclops2]

Re: Through-bolted versus welded construction on an alum trailer.

Most boat trailers DO NOT have the same expected life span as a freight car. Nor the same quality of metals or fabricating excellence. Railroad cars frames DO NOT FAIL. Everything else around them does.

That should even change shortly, as large international companies now control our congress men. With everything being deregulated, more greedy profits will increase the accident rates, right back to the 1910s.

Quality into the job, gives quality operation.


Rich

 

[smokeonthewater]

Re: Through-bolted versus welded construction on an alum trailer.

Can't disagree more.

Worked on the railroad 27yr's repairing freight cars. Steele and aluminum. There are alot of aluminum built railroad cars that are made to carry a 100 tons +. They hold up just as well as the steel ones if not better. There is nothing wrong with welded aluminum. No trailer is going to get more subjected to vibration's then a railroad car.

In my 4 years working for NS I never saw a rail car with an aluminum frame, drawbar, coupler, or knuckle.... Since the original question has already been answered, I would be real interested in hearing just what these aluminum rail cars are.

 

[Scott Danforth]

Re: Through-bolted versus welded construction on an alum trailer.

Can't disagree more.

Worked on the railroad 27yr's repairing freight cars. Steele and aluminum. There are alot of aluminum built railroad cars that are made to carry a 100 tons +. They hold up just as well as the steel ones if not better. There is nothing wrong with welded aluminum. No trailer is going to get more subjected to vibration's then a railroad car.

Welded aluminum requires stress relieving and heat treating. I have never seen an aluminum frame on a rail car.

 

[Thalasso]

Re: Through-bolted versus welded construction on an alum trailer.

Welded aluminum requires stress relieving and heat treating. I have never seen an aluminum frame on a rail car.

The electric companies that ship treated coal to there transmission plants use them. The cars haul anywhere from 100 ton -135 ton.
When they dump them they put them in a jig and roll them over. they don't even uncouple them.The cars do not have doors on the bottom. The center sills are steel.

 

[dingbat]

Re: Through-bolted versus welded construction on an alum trailer.

In my 4 years working for NS I never saw a rail car with an aluminum frame, drawbar, coupler, or knuckle.... Since the original question has already been answered, I would be real interested in hearing just what these aluminum rail cars are.

Everything you want to know about aluminum rolling stock construction
http://www.aluminum.org/Content/Nav...luminum_Applications_in_the_Rail_Industry.pdf

 

[cyclops2]

Re: Through-bolted versus welded construction on an alum trailer.

Aluminum should increase usefull loaded tonnage.
Abrams Tank uses a Aluminum armor plate in places. It is OUTRAGEOUSLY expensive to buy a piece 1 foot square. Piece was almost as heavy as steel. You would need a VERY knowledgeable metal CPA to guess when the maintainance / payback period crossed each other. None of us should be alive then.

 

[Thalasso]

Re: Through-bolted versus welded construction on an alum trailer.

You can?t compare the structural integrity of a aluminum boat trailer an aluminum train car. If you built a boat trailer to aluminum railroad structural standards, no one would be able to afford a boat trailer except the US military.

I think you are missing the point.The standards only apply for the product use. You wouldn't build a boat trailer to freight car standards because they are not carrying that kind of load. The point is you can bolt steel to aluminum or aluminum to aluminum without any structurel problems.

 

[Thalasso]

Re: Through-bolted versus welded construction on an alum trailer.

You can?t compare the structural integrity of a aluminum boat trailer an aluminum train car. If you built a boat trailer to aluminum railroad structural standards, no one would be able to afford a boat trailer except the US military.

Boat trailers are built to the standards of what they are used for. railroad cars are built to the standards they are to be used for.You wouldn't use railroad standards for boat trailers.

 

[Thalasso]

Re: Through-bolted versus welded construction on an alum trailer.

In my 4 years working for NS I never saw a rail car with an aluminum frame, drawbar, coupler, or knuckle.... Since the original question has already been answered, I would be real interested in hearing just what these aluminum rail cars are.

First of all, a coupler is the same as a drawbar. The knuckle is a componet of the coupler (draw bar).I think i stated that the centersill on the car was steel. the coupler and it's components are cast steel. The question was bolting or welding of aluminum. My response for this was that there is no diff. in structual performance. Welding vs bolting. One will last as long as the other as long as it is done right. As posted above the comment was made as to( quote) Fatique fractures in welded aluminum joints that are subjected to vibrations is horrendous ( unquote) and that is just not so with aluminum trailers.They don't get that type of vibrations. You probably walked past aluminum cars and never relized it.

 

[cribber]

Re: Through-bolted versus welded construction on an alum trailer.

My EZ-Loader aluminum trailer is all bolted I-beam aluminum construction for the main structure and bolted boxed aluminum cross bracing.

 

[smokeonthewater]

Re: Through-bolted versus welded construction on an alum trailer.

easy there.... I never called you a liar.... I asked a question...... I realize that the drawbar and knuckle are part of the coupler system..... sorry if that bugged ya.... I really meant what I said, I was CURIOUS about what cars were aluminum..... You didn't mention that the cars were steel framed with aluminum bodies until after I asked.....

I was thinking maybe it was a specialized system sorta like the triple crown trailer trains that I didn't deal with.... I've seen plenty of the coal hoppers and even switched them in and out of the NS coal dock on sandusky bay off of lake eerie.... It's wild watching them dump the cars into boats.... It only dumps one car at a time but still very cool

 

[Thalasso]

Re: Through-bolted versus welded construction on an alum trailer.

easy there.... I never called you a liar.... I asked a question...... I realize that the drawbar and knuckle are part of the coupler system..... sorry if that bugged ya.... I really meant what I said, I was CURIOUS about what cars were aluminum..... You didn't mention that the cars were steel framed with aluminum bodies until after I asked.....

I was thinking maybe it was a specialized system sorta like the triple crown trailer trains that I didn't deal with.... I've seen plenty of the coal hoppers and even switched them in and out of the NS coal dock on sandusky bay off of lake eerie.... It's wild watching them dump the cars into boats.... It only dumps one car at a time but still very cool

No that didn't bug me. No offense taken I apoligize if i came across like that. Post #24

that didn't bug me. No offense taken I apoligize if i came across like that. Mentioned in post #24

 

[smokeonthewater]

Re: Through-bolted versus welded construction on an alum trailer.

that didn't bug me. No offense taken I apoligize if i came across like that. Mentioned in post #24

no worries it's all good

BTW for anyone that wondered, that pic isn't just some antique photo, it still looks just the same and operates 24 hrs a day.

 

[dingbat]

Re: Through-bolted versus welded construction on an alum trailer.

Boat trailers are built to the standards of what they are used for. railroad cars are built to the standards they are to be used for.You wouldn't use railroad standards for boat trailers.

You are confusing structural integrity with structural strength.

Structural integrity is standard of safety and function. A railroad car and a boat trailer require the same standard of safety and function.

Stress and shear fracturing in aluminum is a very real problem when used as a structural component. Aluminum does not do well in applications where harmonics or high shears forces are present. These problems can be over come but they require the use of costly materials and manufacturing processes.

In the early 90?s I participated in a study sponsored by the Aluminum Association and Alcan Aluminum that looked into the design and feasibility of manufacturing aluminum car chassis. While it is certainly possible, the materials and processes where cost prohibitive and the project was abandon.

 

[dingbat]

Re: Through-bolted versus welded construction on an alum trailer.

Aluminum should increase usefull loaded tonnage.
Abrams Tank uses a Aluminum armor plate in places. It is OUTRAGEOUSLY expensive to buy a piece 1 foot square. Piece was almost as heavy as steel.

There is very little aluminum in that waffer. The outragous cost comes from the other materials in that waffer

 

[cyclops2]

Re: Through-bolted versus welded construction on an alum trailer.

1 square foot was $3200 after all machining from a blank plate.

 

[bonz_d]

Re: Through-bolted versus welded construction on an alum trailer.

The question was bolting or welding of aluminum. My response for this was that there is no diff. in structual performance. Welding vs bolting. One will last as long as the other as long as it is done right. As posted above the comment was made as to( quote) Fatique fractures in welded aluminum joints that are subjected to vibrations is horrendous ( unquote) and that is just not so with aluminum trailers.They don't get that type of vibrations. .

I am another that is not building rail cars. I do work in the food industry were rust and corrosion are huge concerns. We use a lot of SS and aluminum for fight that problem in the production areas. Many of the conveyors and Viberating tables we use have welded aluminum parts to them and I see welded aluminum joints fail much more often than SS joints. Motor mounts and bearing supports being just 2 of them.

 

[Bamaman1]

Re: Through-bolted versus welded construction on an alum trailer.

There are quite a few all aluminum cars out there right now, like the bigger Audi sedans and the Jaguar XJ's and XK's. Steel use in automobiles is now just minimal--light stamped body panels. More plastics and aluminum is used every year. Light = low fuel usage.

I drive a Jaguar XK8, and I think it has a steel body on a aluminum frame. Most all suspension, transmission, axle and engine parts are also aluminum. Aluminum cars are often very light, and perform very well due to low weight.

Most of the boat trailers we see used in salt water are galvanized. Aluminum is just too expensive to use.