Tile Floors

[stevenw00]

Who has done tile floors, and what advice can you give? I have about 100 sq. ft. of kitchen and laundry room that I am tiling (its one room). Luckily there are no funny shapes, etc. in this room, but I know nothing about tile, don't know what kind of shape the subfloor is in, and oh yeah... it has to be done tomorrow!!!

Any advice would be WONDERFUL!

Thank you!

 

[TAV MAN]

Re: Tile Floors

Go back to sleep you are dreaming

 

[tashasdaddy]

Re: Tile Floors

what kind of tile, ceramic, vinyl. i have done loooooooots of tile.

 

[stevenw00]

Re: Tile Floors

It will be ceramic tile. Hopefully 12".

 

[lowkee]

Re: Tile Floors

Rent a wet-saw. The home stores usually offer cutting, but you will find yourself going back a few times, which is annoying and time consuming. Make sure you buy the proper tools. I couldn't imagine tiling anything without the proper trowel and giant eraser (I forget its real name, but you'll understand when you feel it). Honestly, the saw, the trowel, the eraser, a couple of wax pencils and tile spacers (little plastic X's) and you should be good to go. I'm big on setting it all up on graph paper first, 1 square per 2 inches. Then you can make measurements and know exactly how many tiles you will need and adjust which tiles get cut where to avoid any tiles from getting cut too small (1" or less cuts risk the tiles breaking, 3" or less risk the tile being laid lopsided).

Good luck. It isn't that difficult. I've done both of my bathrooms, where toilets holes require some extra thought.

Also, don't worry about making the floor perfect for the grout, it will stick to nearly anything. Any buy 4-5 extra tiles, just in case.

 

[Limited-Time]

Re: Tile Floors

In order for a ceramic tile floor to last it requires a sound sub floor. Any flex or movement will cause the grout to loosen and the tile to crack with use. The larger the area and tile size the more critical the sub flooring becomes. 12X12 tile call for a cement type backer board over the existing sub floor, unless the sub floor is concrete. And you'll need to use "thin set" (mortar) for both the backer board and tile.

As for the actual tiling. The lay out will directly effect the out come. After my initial lay out, I dry lay the tile to a point where I can see the tiling will come out as planed. It doesn't take all that much time and insures a good looking job (fit and pattern wise) in the end.

 

[tashasdaddy]

Re: Tile Floors

Hardi backer screwed to floor, then joints taped. the then lay out, then apply with thin set, let it sit over night. then grout. notched trowel, bucket of clean water, rags, grout, trowel, big sponge, clean buckets of water. let grout get tacky, wipe down, you will probably have to wait several hours for grout to completely set, to clean the final film off.

if you do not use the backer board. you will get cracked tiles, and joints. a roll of roof paper is good to put down between backer and sub floor.

 

[fishrdan]

Re: Tile Floors

My neighbor is a tile/marble guy. I helped him out 1 day when I was bored and he was working on a neighbors house.

His method was to figure out the tile spacing (12 3/8, 24 3/4, 37 1/8, etc), snap a center line, then go down the center line and snap lines at 24 3/4", then snap lines off the center line at 24 3/4. After the grid of 4 tile x 4 tile blocks (plus grout lines) was laid out he snapped 12 3/8 lines close to the walls so he could figure out all the cut tiles. After each line was snapped we hit it with clear sealer (rattle can of DEFT) to lock in the chalk line.

He said the grid pattern keeps the tiles square and if you get tile that is not 100% square or 100% the correct size the grid keeps the tile and grout lines accurate. If you rely on the tiles being accurate and use the plastic corner X's, the floor could get off,,, especially on a long run.

It took some time laying out the grid pattern and making sure everything was 100% square, but once that was done all the edge tile could be cut in 1 shot, no going back and forth to the tile saw while laying tile... Actually, as he was laying tile I was cutting the pre-marked edge pieces before he got to the section the cut tile needed to go,, or mixing thinset,,, I was the grunt for the day We didn't use any of the plastic corner spacer X's and the tile came out prefect.

I lucked out helping him, gained a lot of knowledge for a few hours of grunt labor...

 

[phwrd]

Re: Tile Floors

Hire my brother, watched him snap 2 lines through the center of the room, did the whole kitchen in 1 1/2 hour, center out. Cost me materials and beer...


Seriously, Call around and see if you can find someone who know how to do it. With the economy, might get a decent price.

 

[Howard Sterndrive]

Re: Tile Floors

My neighbor is a tile/marble guy. I helped him out 1 day when I was bored and he was working on a neighbors house.

His method was to figure out the tile spacing (12 3/8, 24 3/4, 37 1/8, etc), snap a center line, then go down the center line and snap lines at 24 3/4", then snap lines off the center line at 24 3/4. After the grid of 4 tile x 4 tile blocks (plus grout lines) was laid out he snapped 12 3/8 lines close to the walls so he could figure out all the cut tiles. After each line was snapped we hit it with clear sealer (rattle can of DEFT) to lock in the chalk line.

He said the grid pattern keeps the tiles square and if you get tile that is not 100% square or 100% the correct size the grid keeps the tile and grout lines accurate. If you rely on the tiles being accurate and use the plastic corner X's, the floor could get off,,, especially on a long run.

It took some time laying out the grid pattern and making sure everything was 100% square, but once that was done all the edge tile could be cut in 1 shot, no going back and forth to the tile saw while laying tile... Actually, as he was laying tile I was cutting the pre-marked edge pieces before he got to the section the cut tile needed to go,, or mixing thinset,,, I was the grunt for the day We didn't use any of the plastic corner spacer X's and the tile came out prefect.

I lucked out helping him, gained a lot of knowledge for a few hours of grunt labor...

cool. I learned a lot reading that.

 

[stevenw00]

Re: Tile Floors

Hire my brother, watched him snap 2 lines through the center of the room, did the whole kitchen in 1 1/2 hour, center out. Cost me materials and beer...


Seriously, Call around and see if you can find someone who know how to do it. With the economy, might get a decent price.

We've been screwed by almost every contractor we have brought in so far, so unless I know someone personally at this point, NO ONE else is touching my house!

For the time being I am just putting backer board down so we can get the cabinets and appliances in. Once all of that is done (cabinets will be made in a few weeks) we will pick out the tile we want and I'll tile it on a weekend.

 

[mthieme]

Re: Tile Floors

Tile is fairly easy. I've done it with techniques not different than what the other guys describe. You should have no problem.

 

[i386]

Re: Tile Floors

Not much to add to what's already been said. You can get the bulk of it done over the weekend. Might not get the sealing part (last step) done by Sunday though.

The tile saw is a must IMO. We used the cheapest one Home Depot had. It was blue and made of plastic. It worked fine for 12" tiles. Later on it did a job with 12" slate tiles no problem. It probably wouldn't last if you were making a living with it though.

They sell the trowel, float, spacers and sponge in a kit. It comes in a plastic bucket I think.

Buy some knee pads if you don't own any. Seriously.

If you use the thin backer board (about 3/8" thick I think) you can score it with a razor knife and break it. It's quick and doesn't make a lot of dust. A saw will make a lot of dust.

Mixing: You need a good heavy duty drill with a 1/2 inch chuck. You know, the ones that have the handle sticking out on the side. Even then, let it cool off if it starts to get hot. Don't use your little drill with the 3/8 chuck. You'll burn it up.

 

[Tim Frank]

Re: Tile Floors

I have three comments/suggestions/hard earned lessons

1) For that area of tile, 12" may be too large a piece to be using....it has to do with overall field vs individual tile size ratio and its perspective....6" or 8" might be better. The other thing is that smaller tiles are slightly more forgiving of subfloor inadequacies (but only a bit).

2) Echoing people's rec that you spend lots of time doing dry fitting and layout before cutting or setting.

3) Grout....do small areas at a time and then go back and clean up what you have done, keep moving smoothly and steadily. It dries surprisingly quickly and sticks to EVERYTHING like sh** to a blanket! Then it can be an absolute bear to get off.
Not trying to be an alarmist, but I would probably divide the 100 sq ft into 4 or 5 zones and grout them in sequence, doing a basic clean on each one.

 

[stevenw00]

Re: Tile Floors

I have three comments/suggestions/hard earned lessons

1) For that area of tile, 12" may be too large a piece to be using....it has to do with overall field vs individual tile size ratio and its perspective....6" or 8" might be better. The other thing is that smaller tiles are slightly more forgiving of subfloor inadequacies (but only a bit).

2) Echoing people's rec that you spend lots of time doing dry fitting and layout before cutting or setting.

3) Grout....do small areas at a time and then go back and clean up what you have done, keep moving smoothly and steadily. It dries surprisingly quickly and sticks to EVERYTHING like sh** to a blanket! Then it can be an absolute bear to get off.
Not trying to be an alarmist, but I would probably divide the 100 sq ft into 4 or 5 zones and grout them in sequence, doing a basic clean on each one.

Now I see why you said smaller than 12" tile... I typed it wrong in my first post, I actually have about 200 sq. ft. of tile that I need to lay. The room is about 14' wide for most of its length.
I definitely plan on breaking it up into sections.

Question for anyone... when I tape off the seems between the backer board, do I need to thin set them or anything before I begin tiling, or just let the thin set I put down for tile fill them in?

 

[Tim Frank]

Re: Tile Floors

It PROBABLY does not matter whether you tape the seams, but there is NO QUESTION that it is a better job if you do. I have seen the seams filled with thinset and then tape. This will allow a bit of expansion/contraction movement without cracking the joint.....it is the same general principal as a drywall joint and why you tape them.

You stll have not mentioned what your subfloor construction is.
Slab on grade....standard joists 16" O/C with 5/8 composite/ply sheeting, etc.
Obviously slab on grade is no problem, but if you are over joists you need sifnificant reinforcement...I have seen a recommended thickness of 1-1/2" of subfloor material, but am not a contractor or engineer.
Point is, make sure that your base is adequate before you start , and you will save a lot of potential grief.

 

[stevenw00]

Re: Tile Floors

It PROBABLY does not matter whether you tape the seams, but there is NO QUESTION that it is a better job if you do. I have seen the seams filled with thinset and then tape. This will allow a bit of expansion/contraction movement without cracking the joint.....it is the same general principal as a drywall joint and why you tape them.

You stll have not mentioned what your subfloor construction is.
Slab on grade....standard joists 16" O/C with 5/8 composite/ply sheeting, etc.
Obviously slab on grade is no problem, but if you are over joists you need sifnificant reinforcement...I have seen a recommended thickness of 1-1/2" of subfloor material, but am not a contractor or engineer.
Point is, make sure that your base is adequate before you start , and you will save a lot of potential grief.

Thanks, I'll make sure I thin set the joints.

The subfloor is 1"x6" over joists 16" O.C. and 1/2" plywood over that. I am now putting 1/4" backer board on top of the plywood to firm/level things out.

 

[getinmerry]

Re: Tile Floors

One more thing that may or may not help:

Last fall I watched my neighbor lay down about $1000 worth of handmade special order Mexican tiles. They were slightly convex (raised) in the middle. It was on a concrete floor, and he was just trowling on the thinset and setting the tiles. I recommended he back-butter the tiles because of the raise in the center. He repiled that he was almost done and it would be fine. I shook my head and sipped on my beer watching him finish.

Fast forward 6 months:

I was visiting the other day and noticed a carpet runner down the pathway on the tile. I asked if the tile was slippery with wet shoes- he replied "not at all, we get great traction from all the tile shards". He then lifted the runner to expose about 10 tiles that had shattered because of the gap in the tile center where there was no thinset to support it. He looked at me and said "I should have listened to you"- I sipped on my beer and smiled.

 

[AZMinyard]

Re: Tile Floors

Helpful site:

http://www.doityourself.com/stry/ceramictileintro

Good luck, let us know how it turns out.