Tilt motor not working-Only makes noise

[kenny nunez]

Do us a favor and stop calling the tilt motor a tilt pump. It confuses people.
Your tilt motor is most likely the problem. But just to be sure, on the solenoids near the tilt motor as you can see the wires that energize the solenoids are green for down and blue for up with the same colors feeding the tilt motor. There is a large red wire that feeds the solenoids which are connected together with either a brass strip or wires and are fed through a large fuse near the main battery connection. Sometimes the fuse is not making a good connection where it fits into the holder. Try jumping from the + battery to the + side of the tilt solenoids with a 10 or 8 gauge jumper wire to check if there is anough amperage supplying the tilt solenoids. The solenoids can be triggered with a remote starter button connected from a + battery connection to either one of the small studs on the solenoids whichever direction you want the drive to move.
I recommend by-passing the tilt wiring system with the following.
From the 2 small studs on the tilt solenoids add a blue and a green wire and run it to the instrument panel. Get. Spring loaded on-off-on switch wired through a fuse from a 12 volt source to trigger the tilt motor mounted in the panel. This is a safer way to control the tilt system.

 

[Serf27]

I’m back, and so is the warm weather and so is the boat season!!!

Resuming where I left, some progress and some issues and questions.

I pulled the boat into the driveway to begin work on it. The wiring I left last year was a mess and took a few hours to figure out but I got it!

Last year, my trim pump was working fine, now it is just clicking like the tilt motor, tilt motor still clicks too.
Im going to order new solenoids and just eliminate that issue.

I took the clutch pack out of the intermediate housing for the tilt motor and as soon as they broke free(rusted and stuck together) the gear case/drive was able to move, manually.

I’m hoping the tilt motor is good, but I may just order a new one. I found it for $50 brand new on eBay.
The clutches look ok, just need to be cleaned, at $150 for the kit, I’m not sure if I’m going to replace them.

Some questions I have:

1.)The wires going to the solenoids use the old style glass fuse. Could I ship those plugs and use the new style fuses as long as they are 50amp?

2.)The switches for the tilt motor are located on the accelerator, so technically I should be able to cut those wires off of the accelerator and run them to the switch on the panel right? Instead of running a new set of wires all the way to the front again.

3.) When wiring up the blue/green cable from the tilt motor to the spring loaded switch, I need a switch with 3 prong on the back. ON-OFF-ON.

The outer prongs will have the blue and green wire and the center prong will be connected to a 12v source right?

thanks for any replies in advance.

 

[Redrig]

3.) When wiring up the blue/green cable from the tilt motor to the spring loaded switch, I need a switch with 3 prong on the back. ON-OFF-ON.

The outer prongs will have the blue and green wire and the center prong will be connected to a 12v source right?

thanks for any replies in advance.

Sorry , I cant answer 1 or 2 but for 3 you want a momentary toggle switch (up - off - down ) so the switch automatically goes back to the off position - and you only tap that switch to lower the drive so it lowers in small bursts , if you just hold the switch and ram the drive into the down position you can break the prongs on the tilt motor (I did exactly that the first year I owned my boat)

Good luck

 

[Serf27]

Thanks for the reply!
i bought a momentary switch and a stiff one to avoid slamming the drive up or down.

Ok I took my tilt motor out and tested it and it spins just fine either way, no hesitation!

wish I didn’t because the hammer coupling popped out and I’m not sure if any other little pieces fell out too.
I took it out because when I tried to jump it while it was in the boat, it wouldn’t do anything.

im going to look for small pieces that fell and try to put it back in.

How is the hammer coupming supposed to be installed? Loose or with the spring tensioned??

also, I have the clutch packs sitting in oil before I install them back in, but inside the clutch pack housing is the “tilt clutch shaft” with a rod going through it. The rod is a “tilt clutch cross bar” and the housing for the clutch has a groove with the cross bar gets stuck in(because the bar fits in the shaft so loosely) is that how it’s suppose to be?
ill post pictures of the shaft and the bar right now.

 

[kenny nunez]

The coupling has to be held together with the spring. When the clutch pack is installed turn the set screw until it just contacts the tension bar then 1/2 a turn more. As I said before there are 2 nylon washers that keep the hammer blow coupling centered. If you cannot find them a 1/4” thin flat washer will work with some grease.
Any type of 50 amp fuse will work, even a 50 amp circuit breaker will work and be a lot better than those glass fuses.

 

[Serf27]

Hey, thanks for the reply.

Ok so the cross bar is the same part as the cross bar right?
Once i install the clutch pack I center the cross bar on the clutch shaft, tighten adjustment screw on the back till it makes contact, then 1/2 turn more and the cross bar is set in place?
Or do I have everything mixed up?

EDIT: after viewing the clutch packs un-installed, it looks like the only way to center the cross bar with the clutch packs on the shaft is to remove the clutch shaft completely, assemble it, tighten the screw to push the cross bar against the clutch then slid the shaft back into its place. Correct?

I just replaced the fuse with a new one, I'll use those for now.

Alright on the tilt motor, the diagram shows 1 nylon washer between the tilt motor and the hammer coupling, then then a retainer coupler. I found all those parts and put it all in order and popped the tilt motor back in, went in smoothly, tightened the bolts down to it, went to jump the solenoid for it and nothing! I loosened 1 bolt to the tilt motor and I jump the solenoid and the motor spins but you can hear it doesn't spin at full rpm.
I loosen both bolts to the tilt motor and jump the solenoid and bam, you can hear the motor spin as fast as it did when I bench tested it.

Basically:
Tilt motor mount bolts tightened=No spinning, just click from solenoid.
Tilt motor loose from 1 mount bolt=Medium spinning speed.
Both tilt motor mounting bolts loose, motor spins at full speed.

I did put marine grease on everything, but maybe not enough?

 

[kenny nunez]

Is there a gasket between the tilt motor and the the intermediate housing? Are you sure that the battery is fully charged and delivering full voltage/amps to the solenoids? Those are things that happened to me when trying to diagnose this kind of problem. Is there just one plastic washer on either side of the coupling, you might want to check that there is not an extra one it the rear behind the coupling. I cannot think of any other reason why the motor has to be loose to turn up.

 

[Serf27]

There is a thin papergasket between the motor and the intermediate housing.
Then on the shaft of the motor I a thin nylon washer, then the hammer coupler slides on the shaft and it slides into coupling retainer.
I don’t think there is enough grease between the hammer coupler and coupling retainer. I am going to remove it and put more grease in it.

Here is is a diagram photo of what the set up looks like.
Motor->nylon washer->hammer coupler->coupling retainer.
Parts 5, 35, 37, 40.


Also if you look at the mounting bolt for the tilt motor. It has 2 washers on it!
i only have 1. Part 90 and 97.
Could that be an issues? Lack of 1 washer is tightening the motor too tight in the housing.

 

[Serf27]

Does the gasket between the tilt motor and the intermediate housing play a big role??

i must’ve taken the stupid motor off 10x right now and I can’t get it tightened down and working!!

if I snug the top bolt and leave the bottom bolt loose, spins fast!

If I snug both, it doesn’t spin!

when the top bolt is snug, a spark arches on it when I jump the solenoid.

Can i I just put 2 washer between the tilt motor and the housing?? That would allow me to tighten the motor down and not have it bind In the housing wherever it’s binding.

Battery is 100%. All parts on the motor shaft that the diagram shows are there!

only thing I can think of is add 2 washers between the motor and the housing or remove the nylon washer on the motor shaft that goes between the hammer and the motor.

 

[kenny nunez]

Go ahead and try it without 1 of the plastic washers. There should be only 1 lock washer under each mounting bolt. If you tried to take the motor apart by removing the 2 inner bolts, loosen them up and re tighten them evenly. The gasket is to prevent bilge water from entering into the motor, coupling area and getting into the clutch pack.

 

[Serf27]

I tried it without one washer and no luck!

i think I found the issue.
The motor is coated in a black plastic and in some parts where the screw goes, the plastic has worn off and the metal of the motor is exposed. When I tighten the bolt or if the motor isn’t in the right place, the motor shorts out and doesn’t spin.

Why wouldnt they just have the motor itself be a ground instead of trying to cover it with a plastic coating.
Not sure how I will keep motor covered from the bolts. May need a new motor


EDIT:*** I was looking at replacement motors and this motor, has a metal base where it would ground out automatically.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-POWER-...2706-PT201-PT201NM-6204-EVD4002-/372655802225

The tilt motor is binding on anything when it’s fully installed. I confirmed this by installing the motor all the way and trying to turn it by hand from the other side with the worm gear and yea, the motor shaft spins by hand once fully tightened down.

I confirmed that the motor housing on the mount is causing some sort of electrical issue causing it not spin when it touches metal.

I popped the motor out, again, and a part of
exposed metal on it was touched to the engine
block while I jumped the solenoid, no spin,
while still jumping the solenoid I lifted the motor up off of the engine so it wouldn’t be grounded anymore and the motor spins freely! As soon as I touch the motor to ground it stops.

Does that make sense?

what kind of electrical issue is going on.

 

[Redrig]

that thing is such a pain in the butt to replace and physically get to , if yours has those issues . I would simply get a new one - OEM . In my boat when I replaced mine , I was sore for a week afterwards . I wouldn't want to be fighting with a messed up motor every other trip .

 

[Serf27]

Once I figured out how it comes out, I can get it out easily. I really have taken it out about 10x or more now. I do have the exhaust manifold off and a few other things making it easier though.
I just ordered a new one. Going to put it in when it gets here and try it.

 

[kenny nunez]

Refer to what I posted in #2. I advised you to order a new motor. At least now you know how to R&R a tilt motor!

 

[Serf27]

Refer to what I posted in #2. I advised you to order a new motor. At least now you know how to R&R a tilt motor!

Thanks Kenny! Should’ve listened.
this motor is perfectly fine and I took it apart and it did have some water in it but the brushes were fine and outside of the boat, the motor spins fine! But once installed it grounds out and doesn’t work.

I ordered a new one with a black base same same as this one, hopefully that one doesn’t ground out either!

once I get it installed and know it spins once bolted down, I will start looking at how to install the clutch pack.

 

[froggy1150]

The motor frame is ground. One wire is up and one wire is down. Inside the motor on the brush plate is a thermal overload that opens the ground to motor case. This is there for if you hold button and armature isn't spinning it don't melt windings. It's a self resetting overload. On my motor (74) the 2 long bolts hold everything together and when removed motor can come apart. Not sure if yours is the same. Have you tested both directions on the bench? If it spins with power and ground put to wire connectors somethings wrong. It is possible that the wire going to brush is pinched in case or one of the wires insulation is broke and grounding on that little wire holder.i have read that some of the replacement aftermarket motors don't have the same torque and struggle going up.

 

[froggy1150]

Been awhile since I had mine open but I vaguely remember diodes in there too

 

[Serf27]

Ok I put the new motor on and now it works, don’t even need all the solenoids I ordered!

The tilt motor works using the buttons on the accelerator, I’m going to be cutting those wires off the accelerator and attaching them to a momentary switch.

The swith I bought has 3 prongs.
1 prong is hooked up to 12v power and the other 2 prongs go to tilt up and tilt down right?

hopefully this motor does have the torque needed for the boat, I’ll find out after I install the clutch pack.

 

[kenny nunez]

Just remember “green grass down”, “blue sky up”. For wire color. Most times a new tilt motor is the only answer.

 

[Serf27]

Just remember “green grass down”, “blue sky up”. For wire color. Most times a new tilt motor is the only answer.

I did buy a new motor, just not a new one from the manufacturer.