Timing and octane ratings

TrueNorthist

Petty Officer 1st Class
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May 16, 2012
Messages
229
How much advance could one safely add when using 94 octane fuel, any? My J70elcos appears to absolutely love running at a fat 20 degrees btdc, instead of the stock 19 and I use Chevron super supreme 94. After 2 hours on the water today my plugs still generally appear a healthy dark brown and there is a good sized black ring around the base of the insulator, so I reckon 1 degree more isn't gonna hurt too bad, no? My wot temps pretty much stayed the same with maybe a slight increase of 2 or 3 degrees F, but my wot rpms went from barely 5000 to 5200rpm and speed up a full 5mph! It ran smooth and without a hiccup for the whole time so I wonder if I got away with it? Just how far is too far advanced with these 3 pot motors? Does high octane fuel "buy" me some wiggle room?

Cheers

btw, this engine has an electric fuel pump.

edit: fixed the octane to 94. I had 104 on the brain for some reason...
 
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F_R

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Jul 7, 2006
Messages
28,226
When you deviate from the factory settings you are on you own. I suppose what you did might be OK, but there comes a breaking point when too much is too much. When it breaks you will know it. And it only takes a little while.
 

emdsapmgr

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Dec 9, 2005
Messages
11,551
When you look at the plugs and they are tan, is that as a result of doing a throttle chop? Not only do you need to shut the key off at WOT, but you must instantly pull the shifter back to neutral. If you don't the prop will continue to drag thru the water, turning over the pistons. When that happens you ingest fresh, cool fuel into the cyls and that affects the color of the plugs.
 

TrueNorthist

Petty Officer 1st Class
Joined
May 16, 2012
Messages
229
Indeed I accept that my actions can and most likely will lead to failure -- if pushed too far -- and too far comes pretty darned quick if not paying extremely close attention, which I am, I hope... I also take into account the advanced age and wear on this engine and go to great lengths to listen carefully to what it is telling me. I was simply hoping to mine the brainpower here for opinions on whether or not higher octane fuels allow a slight increase in timing advance with these particular engines. (L3) I confess that for years I accepted such a thing as holy-writ, but lately have seen much that explodes the octane/timing theory as myth. I remain open to facts but so far my tests show a small boost might be gained with 94 or better fuel, but without proper testing/analyzing equipment my results are highly anecdotal and possibly even wildly inaccurate. I now tend to think it is the physical design of the pistons and head with contributions from engine management systems that govern allowable timing settings and a few points more octane only just marginally bend the curve, so to speak. Again, I was simply seeking opinions from folks well established in the outboard world.

And yes, I simply switch the key off at speed and release the gears before "reading" the plugs and only after at least 5 minutes or more at wot. I use 3 sets of plugs and wash them in lacquer thinner before such testing. I typically run BUZHW-2 plugs but for reading I have been using BZ7HS-10's gapped at 40 thou. "Tan" is perhaps a bit generous and brown or dark tan a better descriptor as to the general state of the electrodes etc. The insulator near the centre electrode is at worst tan in colour but when I read a plug for fuel burn I am looking at the base of the insulation with a lighted magnifier. I am still getting a smallish amount of black carbon on the ground electrode and shell face but that might be down to the chemistry of the oil. Castrol "Super" Outboard Plus oil it is.

edit: I will include here the obligatory disclaimer: DO NOT TRY THIS AT HOME! All stunts performed by a psychotic tinkerer in a closed shop and an abandoned lake. Avoid contact with skin and always wash your hands after going pee-pee. Results will vary. Do not eat or place in mouth for any reason and wear protective clothing, especially a hi-vis yellow jacket with reflectors on it. Maybe even a flashing red light. Just don't do it!
 
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TrueNorthist

Petty Officer 1st Class
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May 16, 2012
Messages
229
Thanks for that. FYI, this link shows what I was taught to look for while reading a plug. My camera is on the blink right now but as soon as I get that fixed I will post some images here. From what I see there is a healthy brown/black ring half way up the insulator with no spots nor other signs of heat or pre-ignition. I might look into to down-jetting these carbs a little and if anything my preferred BUZHW-2 plugs run very cool indeed so no fears there. But I am very happy with a max 20 degrees btdc and might pass on anything higher than that. 40mph is pretty darned satisfactory for this motor. No sense pushing my luck too far.

Thanks again. I will post some sp plug pics soon.
 
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jakedaawg

Rear Admiral
Joined
Jun 26, 2012
Messages
4,275
Increased octane actually burns slower. Most dont understand this. It is desireable in certain conditions starting and most frequently usednin high comprrssion situations. It does allow some timing but really accomplushes little in the situation you are describing.

To put it straight, you have rescued your familys old boat from the scrap bin with an electric pump and who knows what. High octane fuel and your adjustments your making will only speed up its ultimate demise. There is no mechanic in a can. If we advance the timing and lean out any motor they will run better, a lot better, right up to the finish line. The finish line will come much sooner! Just one old dogs opinion
 

Faztbullet

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Mar 2, 2008
Messages
15,930
1 degree aint going to make any more hp and either your tach or speedo off as you need a 600 rpm increase to get a extra 5mph. If you were racing it you could raise timing around 5-8 degrees more but this is a family motor. Running it mid cruise with timing increased and carbs at part throttle raises cylinder temps and the extra timing would cause pre-ignition and melt pistons. When we raced inlines years ago we would jack timing up till we seen the eyebrow on top of piston start throwing off aluminum the back it down till it stopped.
 

TrueNorthist

Petty Officer 1st Class
Joined
May 16, 2012
Messages
229
I am kinda treating this motor both as a sentimental restoration project and as a test-bed for my other, better J70TLCOS, which is in boxes waiting on increased interest, not to mention a bucket of cash or two. That motor I intend to polish and maybe enlarge the porting, plane the head a bit and whatever else I might fancy, assuming I win the lottery or something. Don't get me wrong, I intend to stretch as much use as I can out of this motor but I will be carefully testing the limits as well -- within reason. A decent prop might make this thing almost fast and perhaps then I will dial the timing back to a thick 18 and give the old beast a pleasant retirement.

As for speed and gauges etc, the only change made was to max timing (+1.5 degrees I reckon) and the gps told the tale: 34.8mph @ 4900+ to 40.2mph @ ~5250 with nothing else changed. (+/- 50 rpm and maybe .5mph gps error) Ran the 20 degree speed test twice with the same result, but I did not retard the timing and retest. Maybe I'll do that on Monday...
 
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