To fix engine or buy used ones...

[elwopo]

Well.....due to my complete stupidity.....I come to you members of the boating brotherhood for help.
(Newbies or anyone considering buying a boat....DON'T DO WHAT I DID!!! DO NOT LET THIS HAPPEN TO YOU!!)

My new (to me) boat that you have all been so helpful with (advice on docking, fishing, electronics, trailering, etc...) is still a long way from seeing the water.

When I got it from the dealer they said they had gone all over the engines and everything was ready to go. Showed me a sheet where they had done a compression test even. We took it out on the water for a 15 minute trial and it seemed OK. We only took it to WOT briefly to get it on plane.

That's the only time it's been in the water. Since then I took it to the trailer place and had everything done right. New brakes, tires, actuator, leaf springs). Then I took it to a mechanic to have the engines looked at and have some small stuff fixed.

Then the call comes.....
Mechanic says the starboard engine has a cylinder with 0 compression and metal shavings in it. Steering cable leaking. Transom clamp / swivel rotted. Port engine has water in the lower unit oil.
Tells me I need a new power head at 6-7 grand installed (ballpark) along with the other work.

I call the dealer who sold it to me. Says NO way they sold it to me like that. They go over EVERYTHING. Tells me he remembers the trial run and says if 1 cylinder was out then the boat NEVER would have gotten up on plane and it would have been VERY obvious that something was wrong.

So now after blowing almost my whole expendable budget on the boat (25k), truck to pull it (25k), trailer repair (2k), electronics (5k), fishing gear (3k)......I have a decision to make.

Fix these....or think about buying a used pair like this....
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/e...viewitem=&item=290230137270&_trksid=p3907.m32...

Does anyone know anything about OptiMax? I talked to two people here in town and they referred to them as "Opti-pops" because they blow.

Let me say in advance that I know I'm a friggin idiot and I should not have let excitement about the boat stop me from moving forward slowly and having a more thorough check done. If you absolutely can't resist the urge to blast me then go ahead. I put the details out there JUST so that anyone who may ever read this does not do the same thing NO MATTER WHAT.

Any constructive opinions would be greatly appreciated because (and I'm adding this just to vent)....
I'm a single Dad raising my son (13) alone. Run a small family business since my Dad died suddenly (at 60) three years ago. Been averaging 70 hour weeks since then and ignoring everything that's important. Wanted to sieze as much time as possible before little dude heads off to college.
So we decide fishing! Picked up all new fishing gear and cleaned up a Penn reel my Dad had in his garage. It's my son's....he has no interest in the new ones. I got the Poveromo videos on bait rigging and fishing (since we've never done this before) and he watches 1 almost every night.
Telling him about the boat (when asked yet again "when are we going out") was just lousy.
This...coupled with some other things that are going on (his "mom" has a boyfriend now and wants to fight for custody)....just has my brain completely fried and (frankly) fighting the urge to just drop a bottle of scotch every night.

So........a little advice on how to approach this would be great.

Good times.......good times.....

 

[tashasdaddy]

Re: To fix engine or buy used ones...

the scotch is not the solution, i tried it. the ebay listing did not come up.

 

[meet]

Re: To fix engine or buy used ones...

Fight it 0 compression doesn't happen over night.

 

[DRIFTER_016]

Re: To fix engine or buy used ones...

Talk to the police and talk to a lawyer, this is obiously a case of fraud!!!!
How long ago did you pick up the boat?
How did you pay?
Can you stop payment or call CC company?
Do not do anything to fix the issues until you find out if you have any recourse.
You bought this boat from a dealer so there has to be something that can be done.
Ripoff artists make me

 

[elwopo]

Re: To fix engine or buy used ones...

Oops...this might work
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/e...viewitem=&item=290230137270&_trksid=p3907.m32

 

[elwopo]

Re: To fix engine or buy used ones...

the scotch is not the solution, i tried it.

Thanks for that. Nice to know I'm not the only one who has walked down that road.
I drove past the store on the way home.....so today is a good day...

 

[marine4003]

Re: To fix engine or buy used ones...

Hold on now...before finger pointing gets nut's,bring the boat back to the dealer with all the problems the Mech mentioned,give them a chance to rectify this...it is also possible the mechanic is looking to make $$$ off a novice,dealers cannot afford the hassle of lawsuits and reputation smears.If these problems are true,work with them to repair/replace the boat...replace is obviously the best choice in this case,as rot is a never ending battle.Also i would consult a lawyer just to know your legal options. Dont sweat it,it can only get better,stay strong for the little man,remember...everything you do...everything you say...is an example for your son. Good Luck Amigo !!

 

[tmh]

Re: To fix engine or buy used ones...

Hopefully the booze talk was you just kidding, as this is way down the list of life or deathe family issues! Man up and fight the dealer that sold it to you. Or, as smeone else said "work with them" (until the very second he starts on the "it's not our problem" stuff). As was said, you're talking about problems that don't just happen overnight. Maybe the4y do check them out and he THOUGHT he was selling you a decent boat, but have him look at the issues and explain the problems.

Good luck. Keep posting what he or others find as the folks here can provide lots of great technical help as to what is feasible and what isn't.

 

[Dave K.]

Re: To fix engine or buy used ones...

SOO THE SH*# OUT THAT DEALER!!! I would not hesitate to bring in as much legal advice, counsel, whatever, cops, anything, to screw that shop back! quick story - "my cycle was backed into by a garage employee who was driving a customers car." damage wasn't to bad, dented fender ($530.00 fender) problem #1 = who's responsible/ who pays? after calling insurance companies, police report etc...the shop bought a new fender within a week after telling them they were going to court. The Point here is: pursue this legally...& let that dealer know what you're doing & don't back down!

 

[ezmobee]

Re: To fix engine or buy used ones...

Crappy situation for sure. I would think that the fact that you have not had it on the water at all since the sea trial with the dealer should give you a good leg to stand on. However, I have to admit, I don't understand all of this. Who pays $25k for a boat from a dealer that isn't ready to go? Why would you have been needing to take it to another mechanic to have it "checked out"? If I buy a used car from a dealer, I'm assuming it's ready to be driven. If I buy it from an individual I may be taking it a mechanic to have it checked out. Not trying to be acusatory, just looking for clarification.

 

[TonyNoriega]

Re: To fix engine or buy used ones...

No, you're not an idiot! It's obvious that you did your due diligence, what with the test ride and reviewing the engine check reports, etc. But I'm sure that it's no consolation.....

Here's what I would do:

I would try to work with the seller to the fullest extent possible before doing anything else. Even if they won't admit any responsibility they may be willing to do the repair work at a reduced price (or share costs) so that they can get out of this with as little damage done to their reputation as possible.

Failing that approach I would THEN threaten litigation and let the seller know that I would be posting this situation on every forum on the 'net.

We've all had crappy stuff like this happen and you will get past it and have some memorable days on the water with your son! Best of luck and let us know what happens.

 

[Cptkid570]

Re: To fix engine or buy used ones...

Does the boat have a working hour meter? If so, you can prove that you haven't driven the boat at all since you bought it. If you've been driving it for a while, then you may be screwed.

Have you gotten an estimate for the repairs to the engine? If you have, then you can compare the repair costs vs the replacement cost.

Then again, realistically if you have $8K to spend on electronics and fishing equipment, the $8K to get your motor fixed doesn't sound like all that much money for your budget.

 

[tommays]

Re: To fix engine or buy used ones...

does the boat have twin tacks and what RPM did it reach on the WOT seatrial



Most twin boats would have a had time going with one bad motor

 

[dimock44]

Re: To fix engine or buy used ones...

You need to read CountryBumpkins Thread "Sold a boat and it busted". No dealer involved and he still being ruled against. I would think the courts would not favor the dealer. He is the expert in the deal and should shoulder the responsibility. You as the consumer are not expected to be an expert and that is why you go to a professional to purchase items and have work done. That was from a court ruling on a case of homeowner verses contractor where I was on the jury. I think the same would apply to boat dealers who sell used stuff.

 

[45Auto]

Re: To fix engine or buy used ones...

Unfortunately for Elwopo, he lives in the real world and all the internet lawyers wanting to "sue the dealer" are most likely wasting their time. I think he realizes this. My guess is he bought the boat "as is" and this is specifically defined in his contract. He's already gone back to the dealer and it sounds like the dealer isn't going to do anything. With lawyer rates running around $200/hour, he'll spend more than the price of a new powerhead just getting to court and probably lose once he gets there. By the time all the motions and continuances are done he is likely to spend more than the cost of a new boat!! This is why you have a boat surveyed or an independent inspection done if you're not confident of your mechanical ability BEFORE buying!!

When I got it from the dealer they said they had gone all over the engines and everything was ready to go. Showed me a sheet where they had done a compression test even.

No way to tell if the dealer was telling the truth or lying. Either way he has his a** covered with a documented compression test. And contrary to some opinions, a cylinder CAN experience a catastrophic failure and loose compression instantly. That's been demonstrated to me more than a few times with single cylinder motorcycles, where it becomes immiediatly apparent.

The water in the lower unit is hopefully a minor leaking seal. Again, this should have been discovered BEFORE purchasing. No way to prove when it happened.

Not sure what a "leaking steering cable" is. Does it have hydraulic steering and a leaking hose?? Again, should have been found BEFORE purchase.

"Transom clamp / swivel rotted". Does this mean the motor mount is rotted (corroded) or the transom is rotted??? Either one should have been spotted BEFORE purchase. Probably the FIRST and most important thing to check on a 10 year old boat is the condition of the transom.

Unless the boat was purchased with a warranty, the legal shennannigans are most likely a waste of money and time. The dealer has a documented inspection sheet and the customer (Elwopo) admits to being satisfied with a sea test of the boat. He was obviously happy with the condition of the boat at the time of sale or he wouldn't have bought it. His legal rights now are defined by his warranty (if any).

If you can do the work yourself, pulling down the damaged powerhead and inspecting it is your cheapest way out. You may be able to rebuild it fairly reasonably if you're lucky. However, if you're working 70 hours/week that may not be practical.

Hard to give advice on used motors. ANY used item is a crapshoot. Knowing the previous owner and maintenance history would be a big help. Other than that a complete inspection is your best bet. Even with that, no way to tell if the fresh oil in the lower unit was really a milky mess that the previous owner changed just before trading it in ......

Without doing the work yourself, cost-wise the cheapest way out will probably be replacing the powerhead. Then you still have the transom problem to deal with.

I see from your signiture you have another boat. Can you take your son fishing in the Bayliner?

Hard to give advice in this case Elwopo, no matter what you do it ain't gonna be cheap!!! Good luck!

 

[oops!]

Re: To fix engine or buy used ones...

agreed ^^^^^^^^^^

i would try working with the dealer.......esp if the hour meter is showing no hours added.

if you work with them.....it will be a lot cheaper than any other way. chances are, they might be a little red faced about the situation and do some pencil sharpining.

 

[elwopo]

Re: To fix engine or buy used ones...

THANKS for all the great responses! I really do appreciate the help and advice!

Here's the new part of the saga.....

The service manager says "the boss" is willing to pay half the labor (my half would be $45 an hour) and I buy the parts.
We're talking new power head for the one, fix the water in the lower unit problem, leaking steering, transom bracket....and whatever.

So.....what do YOU guys think about this offer?

(I'll keep me immediate impression to myself)

 

[45Auto]

Re: To fix engine or buy used ones...

It sucks, but unless you're willing to do the work yourself it's probably the best deal you're going to find ....................

 

[tommays]

Re: To fix engine or buy used ones...

I have no answers like how much it was used after the sea trial OR how it performed during as i cant believe it reached RPM with a 0 cylinder

 

[45Auto]

Re: To fix engine or buy used ones...

I could believe that a twin 200 set up could lose a cylinder and it would be pretty hard to tell unless you were very familiar with the boat. I once let my wife and kids drive our 6 cylinder Jeep Cherokee on 5 cylinders for over 6 months (it had a collapsed lifter and I didn't feel like telling her or pulling the head to fix it) and they never noticed it. Didn't fix it till I wanted to use the Cherokee to pull the boat!