To Paint, Or Not To Paint

[Yacht Dr.]

Re: To Paint, Or Not To Paint

Just make sure the Hires use the right buffing compound..and not some special coating to make it look good.

Cost should be about 10-12 bucks a foot..

YD.

 

[rfdfirecaptain]

Re: To Paint, Or Not To Paint

Ondarvr,
I gotcha. Although as you can see I have made quite a mess so far. That's why I'm afraid to do anything without dotting every I and crossing every T.

Doc,
Is that price per linear foot or square foot? If it's per linear I will look around for a marine detailer. Also, what IS "the right compound". Remember you are talking to a DIYer who is trying to get an education on this stuff. But, after my fist attempt at this job, and looking at the mess I made of it, I feel more like I've been taken to the woodshed!

Oh yeah.... I'm still wating to see if someone can tell me what size steel wool to use. After that.. I think I will have crossed my last "T".

 

[Yacht Dr.]

Re: To Paint, Or Not To Paint

Thats linear foot ( 20ft = about 200+some charge extra for materials ).

Im just saying use compound.. some prefer aquabuff or 3m or miguires.. makes little difference.

Im kinda leary about steel wool ( or scotch brights ). I guess you can try it using the Finest steel wool out there. 0000 ?

YD.

 

[rfdfirecaptain]

Re: To Paint, Or Not To Paint

UPDATE: Due to a tropical storm passing through my area I wasn?t able to get started on Saturday as planned. I got started this morning (Monday) and here is where I am with it.

First, I removed all the striping. Since then (for the past 2 hours) I have been scrubbing a 4? wide area beginning at the Port Stern. I did two sections 2? wide each as suggested. I used #0000 steel wool and Xylene. My results are as follows. The glue from the striping is easily removed. (Xylene did much better work of removing than Acetone or MEK when I had tried those). Also, I noticed that under the striping the gel coat looks fabulous, but at the edges where it meets the visible areas, there is a ridge. The narrow section that?s been underneath the striping is obviously raised above the other sections. What does that tell me about the overall condition of this gel coat? (FYI? it?s the original striping from 1993)

After scrubbing I wiped down with Xylene on clean cloths. So far (after about 90 minutes of scrubbing in this small area and there is no noticeable change in the appearance of the gel coat. The white swirl marks are still there and do not appear to have been diminished. Yacht Dr. mentioned that I had not removed the water line marks. Even using steel wool and Xylene I haven?t made a dent in that blemish.

If in fact the wax ?crap coating? is being cut away shouldn?t I see more of the gel coat and less of the swirl patterns? Do I need more aggressive steel wool, or chemical? Or, should I just keep working at it because these things will be resolved in the compound buffing part of this project? Before I continue killing myself I thought I should ask these questions. Maybe a ?plan B? is in order and I sure don?t have the experience to know it.... the old "know when to hold 'em, know when to fold 'em kinda thing

 

[Tail_Gunner]

Re: To Paint, Or Not To Paint

Take your buffer on that 2 ft section get your pad damp....get the hull wet....take the buffer up to speed and very slowly and lightly buff the hull...It should take about 3 secs to either poilish up.If it does not the gel is gone..Time for Paint...

I cannot imagine any wax or sealant standing up to xylene and wool. It should be obvious when your scrubbing is there any residual in the wool? If so well you have a big problem that has to removed before painting it is critical.... but that gel is gone it seems obvious.

 

[rfdfirecaptain]

Re: To Paint, Or Not To Paint

TG, will do right now. Again, you gotta treat me like the village idiot when giving me instructions. I assume you mean buff with a damp pad and wet hull using WATER. Right?

Yes, there is some gunked up stuff in the wool. Hard to say if it?s an accumulation of wax, striping adhesive or both. I think most of it is probably melted adhesive.

 

[Tail_Gunner]

Re: To Paint, Or Not To Paint

TG, will do right now. Again, you gotta treat me like the village idiot when giving me instructions. I assume you mean buff with a damp pad and wet hull using WATER. Right?

Yes, there is some gunked up stuff in the wool. Hard to say if it?s an accumulation of wax, striping adhesive or both. I think most of it is probably melted adhesive.

IF your cleaning with wool as long as residual wax comes off the hull you need to keep cleaning...

As to buffing you have a pad on the buffer get it wet...Turn it on and the force of the rotation will empty the water...Now get the hull wet and lighty buff it will takes secs to get results.

Stay in one area of 2 square ft. get that area right

 

[rfdfirecaptain]

Re: To Paint, Or Not To Paint

UPDATE: After 3 more hours and following recent suggestions by Tail_Gunner, considerable change is noted. I did resort to using a polishing compound that I had on hand, Shurhold?s Buff Magic. This is where the change really took place. I don?t have a deep glossy shine, but most all of the white swirl marks in the area I am working are gone. The water line just above the bottom paint is another story. I haven?t made any progress with that stain and I fear that?s just there to stay. More suggestions on that?

I think I need a different power tool though. My polisher is more of a random orbital. It?s just a normal $30 unit from Autozone. It doesn?t appear to rotate very much. More or less, I would say it just vibrates against the boat and that?s with very little pressure. Wouldn?t I be better off if the unit were actually rotating as opposed to vibrating? Thoughts anyone?

 

[redfury]

Re: To Paint, Or Not To Paint

Do you have a Harbor Freight near you? They sell a 7 inch variable speed sander/buffer that's on sale for $29 right now that would do the trick. I have one and have to say that it's the way to go for anything that needs a little extra "power" behind it. The kit I bought came with polishing pads and sanding pad w/ a few sanding discs.

 

[rfdfirecaptain]

Re: To Paint, Or Not To Paint

redfury, Yes I do have one close by. I am checking now to see if they have it in stock. Thanks for the $$$ saving information!

BTW... I have followed some of your rebuild threads. Man you are one gutsy fellow!!! I've bitten off a big chew several times, but I can't imagine taking on some of your projects. I will say that just watching the progress of folks like you gives folks like me (not very experienced) the confidence to attempt more. In the process I think it helps me to learn more about my boat. Sure would be nice if you were my next-door neighbor!

 

[Yacht Dr.]

Re: To Paint, Or Not To Paint

Hello Cap..

You really do need a rotary buffer ( that orbital is only for applying wax crap ).

I would myself keep the pad clean and follow the directions on your Compound ( not polish ). Water or no water thing.

I use 3m Imperial with no water and a white wool pad ( yellow pads are for polishing paint ).

Rub the crap outa it .. you will find that Goldielocks pressure and movement with time ..

The raised gel under your tape line is A given with gel. ( All boats that are not new have this lethography affect ) no worries.

Remember .. if your pad isnt blue..your still not rubbing the gel..

When your pad starts to clog bad..take a stir stick to the pad on high to get that crap off

Good luck.

YD.

 

[Tail_Gunner]

Re: To Paint, Or Not To Paint

You really need a buffer..Do not use anymore waxes

http://www.harborfreight.com/7-inch-variable-speed-polisher-sander-92623.html


Your only compounding the issue applying more wax or cleaner...


Lets see : http://www.iboats.com/Buffing-Pads/dm/*******.193673017--**********.142658182--view_id.217331

Nope ohhh looky here :

http://www.e-bodyshopsupplies.com/meguiarsw7207-7burgandysoftbuff20foamcuttingpad.aspx

And This

Ok now your at about 100 scoots...still short of a pro job but your learning and can do this once a yr...Boating pricless huh...

 

[rfdfirecaptain]

Re: To Paint, Or Not To Paint

YD and TG,

Thanks for keeping up with my progress! After refury suggested the Harbor Freight buffer I drove 70 miles round trip top go get it. TG it?s identical to the one in your photo.

With my new Harbor Freight buffer I reworked the whole area (a total of about 8 linear feet. I have to admit, overall the gel coat is probably 85% better, but that water line just isn?t buffing out.

I tried clean buffing with just water and I didn?t make a dent. It was after I started using a compound that I got results. I don?t think the Buff Magic I?m using is a wax. It has aggregate in it and I am applying it just like a compound. (There is a liquid that top coats it, but I?m nowhere near that part of the process.) I was going to ask if a more aggressive compound would likely work that water line out, but already my white compound pad is green. Like you said YD, ?You?ll know when you hit the gel?. And you were right.

I have to work a 24 hour shift tomorrow. Weather permitting I will be back on this project all day Wednesday and I will post some photos of my progress, for opinions Wednesday evening. I always say ?chemicals are your friends, work smarter, not harder?. If you can suggest any other type of product I might try please let me know before Wednesday morning. I can hit the West Marine on my way home and avoid another 70 mile round trip back.

Oh, I forgot to add: I have searched for that MEGUIARS Foam Cutting Pad at all the major auto stores in my area. Can you tell me where I can find it? In lieu of the pad that's why I was asking what other compounds etc you could suggest.

 

[ondarvr]

Re: To Paint, Or Not To Paint

You don't want a foam pad, they work OK on paint, but not on gel coat, use wool, twisted for cutting, non twisted for polishing.

Use as coarse of a compound as needed, if coarse compounds don't do it use fine grit and paper start with 1000, if that doesn't do it use 800.

 

[Tail_Gunner]

Re: To Paint, Or Not To Paint

:redface:...Thats actually a compounding pad...Dont know if you have tried one but they are a delight. They dont bite in as hard and its damm hard to burn anything with them. I first tried one two yrs ago i will never use a wool pad again.. i think.

1. Easier to clean
2. Almost burn proof
3. Doesnt bite or dig hard during those moments when your mind wanders..
4. Very easy to control around rails and hooks..
5. After the inital cut of compound a light spray of water gel polish's like glass no swirls none. Cant do that with wool...

 

[6meter]

Re: To Paint, Or Not To Paint

You were just moving the junk that was on top of the gel coat around. Had the same problem. Was kept being told to go further. I was using sand paper to get all the crap off. I finally started to sand the boat color. Finished with the meguires compound. Looks about 95% perfect. I too was afraid that I was going to sand right through the color.
The funny thing was that if I was going to paint it, seriously thought about it, I would have to sand it down, just as I did.

 

[Yacht Dr.]

Re: To Paint, Or Not To Paint

I could use a better picture on the waterline thing your talking about..

But..you could try some SnoBowl toilet cleaner on it. .. let work for a few minuts. ( It will not harm your gel ).

YD.

PS. Glad to hear things are working better now

 

[rfdfirecaptain]

Re: To Paint, Or Not To Paint

Ok I got it.... on my way home tomorrow morning going to buy the following:
1. SnoBowl toilet cleaner... or some comperable brand
2. 800-1000 grit wet sand paper
3. Meguire's foam cutting pad (Still need some advice on where to find that)

I will get an "as is" water line photo up first thing before I make my first attempts tomorrow.

Thanks again to all.

 

[ondarvr]

Re: To Paint, Or Not To Paint

:redface:...Thats actually a compounding pad...Dont know if you have tried one but they are a delight. They dont bite in as hard and its damm hard to burn anything with them. I first tried one two yrs ago i will never use a wool pad again.. i think.

1. Easier to clean
2. Almost burn proof
3. Doesnt bite or dig hard during those moments when your mind wanders..
4. Very easy to control around rails and hooks..
5. After the inital cut of compound a light spray of water gel polish's like glass no swirls none. Cant do that with wool...

From the people that make the compounds the word is to not use them, they retain too much heat when used on gel coat and they advise using "good" wool. Cheap wool and synthetics can burn, scratch, leave swirl marks and not attain as good of a shine.

I did two recent classes on patch and repair with the tech reps from Farecla, I did the glass and gel coat repairs and they did the buffing.



http://farecla.com/#


3M offers a foam pad for glazes on various marine finishes and then one for compounds, but doesn't rate it like they do the wool pads. The wool pads are listed for gel coats.

I'm not saying you can't use foam, but for the most part shops don't use them on gel coat.

I haven't done a recent class with 3M to know what they actually have to say about the foam pads right now though.

http://solutions.3m.com/wps/portal/3M/en_US/Marine/Home/Products/AAD-Catalog/

 

[rfdfirecaptain]

Re: To Paint, Or Not To Paint

UPDATE:

After checking West Marine and 5 name brand auto stores the 3M foam cutting pad is not an option unless I wait and order it off the Internet. So, after lengthy discussion with the West Marine manager I purchased the product pictured below. The manager had experience with this product and so I took a leap of faith. In the background you can see a wider shot of the section I have been working

In the second photo: The main section I've been working. The water line picture in this shot has been scrubbed with: Xylene and steel wool, toilet bowl cleaner and steel wool, and the 3M buffing compound. Still no change. I'm working in the shade so there are some lighting blemeshies. Overall I would say 95+% of the cloudy swirl marks are gone.

In photo three: You'll see where my work has ended. This shot shows the problem and the results so far.

I'm getting a good "cut" into the gel. My pad is green and there is all kinds of green chunks that the buffer has slung down onto the plastic tire fenders.

Comments? Suggestions? I will check back throughout the day for your comments. Thanks!!!