To retorque ... or not retorque

spete

Petty Officer 2nd Class
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Jan 27, 2003
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I have a 115 hp motor that is 5 years old and I am questioning whether it is a good idea to go through your motor and retorque all the bolts as general maintenence. Seems like over time things would work loose, but maybe that's why you torque equally in the first place so bolts never work themselves loose. If it is suggested to retorque, do you slightly loosen all bolts and then retorque all to OEM specs? Or do you just take the wrench around and check all for tightness? Just wondering what others do out there on this subject for preventative maintenence?
 

rodbolt

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Sep 1, 2003
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Re: To retorque ... or not retorque

hello<br /> to properly retorque the bolt it must first be loosend. be aware that if this has not been done the bolts may be stuck. if this is the first time in 5 years then I would say remove the bolts chase the threads with a tap if they show signs of corrosion and lighty grease the threads and retorque them one at a time.<br /> good luck and keep posting
 

jim dozier

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Re: To retorque ... or not retorque

First let me say that I am not a professional mechanic, so this is just my opinion. So somebody may shoot me down on this one. Rodbolt is correct that to properly retorque bolts you have to loosen them (and probably lubricate them). But if you go around loosening things that have gaskets, you should probably replace the gasket. <br /><br />If its been 5 years and the engine runs well and you don't suspect that gaskets are leaking I would think that you are basically just looking for loose nuts and bolts. I would go around and tighten them using a torque wrench to avoid over or untightening them. Any warpage would have already occured and you aren't going to fix it or make it worse by tightening the loose bolt. If a bolt or nut appears to be tight with a hand held spanner I would not put a torque wrench on it to check. But if it appears to be loose you could use a torque wrench to make sure it was properly tightened. If the engine isn't running right then you are in repair mode and its a whole different ballgame.<br /><br />Torqueing nuts and bolts is done for 2 reasons. <br /><br />1. to make the nut/bolts tight enough for the purpose and not to overstress the fastener/part<br /><br />2. to make the pressure the same all the way around the part to prevent warpage of mating surfaces like a cylinder head. For instance lets say the recommended torque was 30 to 40 ft/lbs. You would want them all at 30 or all at 40 not half at 30 and half at 40 (which would still be within the correct limits).
 

cobra 3.0

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Re: To retorque ... or not retorque

Other than retorquing oil pan bolts and valve covers that may be loose, I wouldn't retorque anything unless you can see a leak. I think you would be looking for trouble where there isn't any at the moment.
 

Hooty

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Re: To retorque ... or not retorque

To quote somebody else but I don' remember who.<br />"If it ain't broke, fix it 'til it is."<br /><br />c/6<br />Hooty
 

vissertrades

Petty Officer 3rd Class
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Aug 16, 2003
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Re: To retorque ... or not retorque

Do NOT grease the threads. Unless they were designed to be torqued greased. Lubrication changes the system friction used to develop torque. A greased thread will result in a over-torqued fastener!
 

spete

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Re: To retorque ... or not retorque

Great replies - I'm definitely in the "if it ain't broke, fix it 'till it is" category. Think i was just thinking along the lines of Cobra 3.0 on torquing oil pan bolts and valve covers that may be loose. Just keeping everything well tightened as a preventative. Sounds like it's not really necessary unless you see an obvious leak and then you'll need to probably replace the gasket to go along with that retorque. Some of my gaskets are showing some "salt creep" and i theror-ized (sp) that perhaps the the salt intrusion could weaken the gasket and create a bit of a gap and thus a loosened condition with the realted bolts. Just a theory.
 

Forktail

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Feb 11, 2002
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Re: To retorque ... or not retorque

It's always a good idea to check clamps, harnesses, linkages, hold-downs, etc. But no need to re-torque engine bolts.
 

rodbolt

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Re: To retorque ... or not retorque

the head retorque is part of normal service. most yammi's its part of the 100 hour service except for HPDI and 4 stroke.<br /> the threads must be greased or oiled. I use pipe sealant with teflon. you are tightening steel into aluminium. if its dry it has a tendancy to gall and the aluminium will stick to the steel. the standard for torque is all threads to be clean and lightly oiled unless otherwise specified. that is from the machinist handbook. never never ever torque a dry thread unless its specifically called for a dry torque. dry threads and bolt heads cause sticking and chattering both are not desirable in a fastener torque. and grease helps to remove it later as well.<br /><br /> good luck and keep posting
 

Clams Canino

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Re: To retorque ... or not retorque

I use locktite blue for "general purpose" steel into aluminum. Same reasons.<br /><br />-W
 

spete

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Jan 27, 2003
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Re: To retorque ... or not retorque

Thanks for the opinions/expertise. <br /><br />Will take off cowl, hold new torque wrench and just LOOK at bolts ... must resist the temptation ... don't meddle man! (This from a man who once did his mom a favor by tightening all the screws on the switch plates and plug sockets in the house and probably cracked the plastic on more than half ... but they were tight dang it and all the screws were vertically aligned!!!)<br /><br />Hey, maybe I'll just drain and clean the romote oil tank instead - surely that can get me into some sort of trouble. <br /><br />Thanks for the posts~
 

jim dozier

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Re: To retorque ... or not retorque

Spete, I recommend that you get an aluminum plate (so you feel like you're working on an outboard), fasten it to the transom by the engine, and drill and tap some holes of various diameters (put some metric ones in there, too) and screw some bolts in there (put a few studs in as well). Now when you get the urge you just go to the plate, get out that torque wrench you are dying to use and torque away. I would even advise that you occaisionally snap the head off a few just to keep it realistic. :D
 

spete

Petty Officer 2nd Class
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Jan 27, 2003
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168
Re: To retorque ... or not retorque

Excellent suggestion Jimd ... only i'm going to mount said aluminum plate under the virtually unremovable deck hatch where the fuel tank sits so i can get a little bit better crick in my neck while trying to remove/replace broken stud :) <br /><br />Thanks!
 

vissertrades

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Aug 16, 2003
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Re: To retorque ... or not retorque

LMAO...You guys crack me up! Don't forget to use plenty of 5200 sealant and get it all over you. I had black hands for TWO weeks after rebuilding my transom!
 

Jdeagro

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Re: To retorque ... or not retorque

Peit Visser is correct when he says that lubricants can result in over torqing. Many years ago I manufactured ultra high strength engine bolts ( rod bolts, head bolts, main bolts etc) for race engines. I doubt the things are different today.<br /><br />1) Check the service manual before retorqing any bolt.<br />2) If the manual says nothing about lubrication, do not use any. The SAE standard is solvent cleaned and dry.<br />3) If the manual says to use a lubricant of a specific type, do not vary from this by using something different.<br />4) When it comes to Head bolts, Rod bolts, Main bolts, or any bolt that clamps a moving force the torq specification and bolt design (including the material and method of heat treating) preloads the clamped parts in excess of the expected loads under power. In other words the clamping force exceeds the work load. When fibre material gasketing is used between the surfaces, it is common to retorqe 24 hours after initial instalation. Because this is not practical in production, most gasketing is stamped and embosed steel. The retorqing of fiber material is because the softer material will "set".<br /><br />As for lubricants - What I am about to say is easier to understand if you think of a "Torque Wrench" as a "Friction Wrench". In order to measure torque you need to restrict the movement of the device producing the torque - ie: the torque of a motor is measured by restricting the rotation ( a breaking action). <br /><br />A torque wrench measures the amount of resistance (friction) created when the clamping force increase the load on the mating surfaces and threads. If you lubricate these surfaces the friction is reduced even though the clamping load is increased. This usualy results in permanent damage to the bolt. The size and material of the bolt is specific to the clamping load required.<br />The load on the bolt should never exceed its elasticity point, other wise the bolt will be permanently weakend. Yes the bolt will stretch, and should return to its origional length when the load is removed. If not the grain (like in wood) will have been fractured.<br /><br />Various lubricants have varing load capacity. This is when the load on the mating parts forces the oil/lubricant to migrate (move) from the point of contact (Timpkin Test). Here is an example of how much the torque specification can change and still achieve the SAME clamping force :<br /><br />3/8" Diameter Connecting Rod bolt -<br /><br />Solvent Cleaned & Dry OEM Spec = 42 ft Lb.<br />30 wt engine oil = 37 ft lb.<br />graphite oil (moly lube) = 20 ft lb.<br /><br />Once the grain of the bolt is fractured it is permanetly damaged. If a damaged bolt is torqued near or above it's new (lower) threshold it will relax during use.<br /><br />Check the manual and don't vary from the specifications.
 

rodbolt

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Sep 1, 2003
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Re: To retorque ... or not retorque

hahaha the plate is way to funny<br />5200 is an ordeal<br /> I usually just smear some on me before using it that way I dont worry about getting it on me. thats the nastiest stuff known. <br /> good luck and keep posting :)
 

Clams Canino

Commander
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Jan 10, 2004
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2,179
Re: To retorque ... or not retorque

The best part about using the 5200 is telling the customer he has to wait a week for it to fully cure. Yes, I know about the 5200 qwik-dry but I use the original.
 

Hooty

Rear Admiral
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Oct 2, 2001
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4,496
Re: To retorque ... or not retorque

I read this and looked down at my finger nails and guess what? Yep, there it is. I changed engine mounting bolts today. <br /><br />c/6<br />Hooty
 
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