Tongue Weight Problem

gwoloshyn

Petty Officer 2nd Class
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Jul 27, 2010
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I have a trailer that has very low tongue weight when everything is loaded. I can pick up the tongue with 1 finger, and it will stay raised up all the way. Thing is, when trailering down the road even at high speeds, it trailers just fine with no swaying. It just jumps up and down from the little weight on the hitch.

It's a custom made boat and the trailer was bought separately, and I cannot move the axle because the holes to receive the springs are welded on.

Any other options? Is it safe to trailer short distances?
 

tpenfield

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Jul 18, 2011
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Re: Tongue Weight Problem

So, you have found the 'zero' tongue weight . . .

It sounds like a small boat/trailer combination, can you add some more info about that?

Anyway, there are a number of things that you can do to adjust the trailer tongue weight, and I would advise doing so. You do want some weight on the tongue to avoid it popping up when you disconnect the coupler . . . if it were to go negative due to heavy stuff in the stern, then it might smack you in the mouth or something like that unexpectedly.

I would see about moving heavy stuff forward in the boat for trailering purposes, or possibly moving the bow stop forward.
 

H20Rat

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Re: Tongue Weight Problem

Thing is, when trailering down the road even at high speeds, it trailers just fine with no swaying. It just jumps up and down from the little weight on the hitch.

Unless it is an extremely light trailer for a jon boat setup, it WILL bite you at some point. (even those will bite) All trailers have a critical speed/tongue weight where they become unstable. Increasing tongue weight increases that speed, lowering tongue weight does the opposite. The tricky part is knowing what will upset the trailer. Might be interesting if you have a semi pass you at 75 mph in a crosswind...

Anyway, how about a spare tire mounted on the tongue? Pics!
 

kjsAZ

Chief Petty Officer
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Jun 15, 2012
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433
Re: Tongue Weight Problem

one finger to lift it sounds a bit on the very light side. US single axle trailers are usually designed for 8-10% of tongue weight. However, the European ones are 2-3%. Difference is the length of the tongue. As longer the tongue (or better distance from axle to coupler) as less tongue weight you need for a well performing trailer. The lower tongue weight/longer one has a lot of advantages as the tongue will go up and down when going over uneven surfaces. The up forces are a lot lower too and won't impact the vehicle geometry as much. However if the trailer was designed for 8-10% you have to go with it.
You can turn a European trailer into a US one by chopping of a part of the tongue..... I own a utility trailer with adjustable tongue length and the manual states that in Europe only the extended position may be used.
 

smokeonthewater

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Re: Tongue Weight Problem

Hence the reason that european auto specs are totally worthless in the US.....

O/P, two options... move the axle back or move the load forward.... simple answer.... the hard part is deciding how to do it.

Just because the axle stuff is welded does not mean it CAN'T be moved btw

I guess there IS another option and it just might be the best one.... find another trailer that fits the boat better.
 

Bamaman1

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1,895
Re: Tongue Weight Problem

Boat trailers are first adjusted by moving the winch tree up and back. And you're looking for 10-12% of the total weight to be on the trailer ball.

If you cannot for some reason move the winch tree, the only option would to move the axle back somewhat. And for that, you'd need to take the boat to a real trailer shop. It's not any big deal for a professional shop to move it.

The penalty for not having any weight on the tongue is the trailer jackknifing. I've been on the wrong end of trailers jackknifing twice, and it's the most helpless feeling I've ever had.
 

lrak

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Aug 17, 2011
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Re: Tongue Weight Problem

Boat trailers are first adjusted by moving the winch tree up and back. And you're looking for 10-12% of the total weight to be on the trailer ball.

False. Ideal is about 7%. Read any conventional hitch boat trailer's owners manual and it will give a range. It will be in the 5-10% range for a boat trailer. If you don't have your trailers owners manual try to find it online.

The penalty for not having any weight on the tongue is the trailer jackknifing. I've been on the wrong end of trailers jackknifing twice, and it's the most helpless feeling I've ever had.

False. Jackknifing is the result of backing up foolishly or too little braking pressure from the trailer when stopping hard. That can be because your trailer brakes aren't applying enough pressure or your brakes have applied too much pressure and locked (usually on a slippery road). The braking issue is very unlikely to be an issue with a light weight trailer which probably doesn't have brakes anyway, so don't be an idiot backing up.

Too little tongue weight can cause the trailer to sway side to side, possibly violently.
 

H20Rat

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Re: Tongue Weight Problem

False. Ideal is about 7%. Read any conventional hitch boat trailer's owners manual and it will give a range. It will be in the 5-10% range for a boat trailer. If you don't have your trailers owners manual try to find it online.

False. Jackknifing is the result of backing up foolishly or too little braking pressure from the trailer when stopping hard.


Depends on the manufacturer, as well as the trailer design and load. A short tongue heavy single axle trailer with a tall boat needs more tongue weight. (the aero drag of a tall boat functions like a pivot and actually lifts the tongue...) There are ones out there that do recommend 10%+. Also, unless you are exceeding the hitch/vehicle capacity, more tongue weight has really no drawbacks.
 

lrak

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Messages
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Re: Tongue Weight Problem

Depends on the manufacturer, as well as the trailer design and load. A short tongue heavy single axle trailer with a tall boat needs more tongue weight. (the aero drag of a tall boat functions like a pivot and actually lifts the tongue...) There are ones out there that do recommend 10%+. Also, unless you are exceeding the hitch/vehicle capacity, more tongue weight has really no drawbacks.

The only boat trailers I've ever seen with a short tongues are jetski trailers and the manufacturers recommend less than 10% for those.

There certainly is a drawback to more tongue weight. Boat trailers often have a long single front frame member. That acts like a third spring that is out of sync with the axle springs. Too much tongue weight will give you a hell of a lot of unnecessary bounce. I don't understand why people don't believe their trailers owners manual.
 

smokeonthewater

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Re: Tongue Weight Problem

I have owned at least 25 trailers. Most of them boat trailers... I have set ALL of them (except for a few that are much higher) for 10-15% tongue weight and generally as close to 15% as possible and NEVER had any problem at all..... Heck, one of my (non boat) trailers is 48' long and ranges from 25-40% tongue weight depending on how it's loaded
CERTAINLY never had or heard of a bounce issue from too much tongue weight... Have had a few that were VERY unruly with too little tongue weight till I adjusted them tho.....
Never in my life have I ever seen ANY owners manual (or cared to) for any trailer I have ever owned or pulled.... Would be like reading directions before eating a cheese burger... doesn't take a genius to figure out what works and what doesn't.

Now even assuming that you are within the capabilities of the towing vehicle there actually ARE a couple of downsides to too much tongue weight but they come at far higher than 15%... one would be failure of the tongue or coupler due to exceeding it's designed strength and the other would be a tippy trailer (tricycle effect) where too high a percentage of the weight is over the single pivot point of the hitch and the trailer is in danger of tipping over in a curve especially when braking.
 

Carusoswi

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Jun 13, 2009
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Re: Tongue Weight Problem

I find posts on this topic fascinating. . . . and I also find the recommendations too conservative and limiting. Use whatever percentage tongue weight you prefer if your tow vehicle is (what I find typical) a monstrous suv/truck that will be little affected no matter how much weight you place on the tongue.

My towing packages are relatively lightweight, 14' aluminum Sea Nymph with 25hp Johnson outboard, two 6-gal fuel tanks (generally caried in the rear of the boat).

Trailer is a single axle (duh) Shore, and, as delivered new back in the early '90's, was setup with a distance of 6' from coupler to winch tree (term is new to me, but aptly describes that part, I guess).

I was driving a '94 Taurus SHO when I purchased the boat, and felt that the delivered setup put too much weight on the back of my car.

I moved the winch back 4" and have used that setup with all my vehicles since (Honda Accord, Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX, VW Jetta TDI).

I can't lift the tongue with one finger, but with one hand, it is light as a feather.

Pulls behind my vehicles, and I have to check my review mirror to confirm that it is there.

I can adjust the tounge weight by giving attention to how I load gear (fuel, coolers, etc.) into the boat before towing.

Dockside observers used to laugh at me when I pulled up to the ramp in my GSX, but, with on-demand AWD, that little car was like a mini-tractor, and I never had a problem pulling away from mossy ramps that left monster trucks smoking their tires (albeit to pull out much larger/heavier watercraft than my little boat).

As I understand it, the heavier tongue weight recommendations are more about concern that the trailer might pop off the hitch than any other issue.

In my view, the recommendations are beyond conservative, especially when considering lightweight towing vehicles.

I don't know it all, but I can rely upon my experiences. I've pulled this rig across the country with no adverse consequence over the years.

Obviously, a rig that grossly exceeded the capacity of my towing vehicles would not be alleviated by moving the "pod" back on the trailer. Sure, I could balance the weight to avoid having the tongue drag the ground, but the weight of the trailer in such a setup would either pull the rear of my car off the road, or, in turns, would pull the tail of my car off track and cause fish tailing. That, I think, is common sense.

. . . but so, I think, is my view that arbitrary guidelines concerning recommended tongue weight are too conservative.

I don't need a truck to pull my rig, nor do I need to stress my towing vehicle.

Sidenote: The tongue length of my rig is longer than most of what I see on the road - I think the dealer rigged up whatever he had available at the time, but this has been a blessing for me rather than a curse.

There is no ramp that gives me trouble, my tow vehicle's tires never come close to getting wet even in the most gradually sloped ramps. The downside is that, unless you "walk the rail" (tongue of my trailer), you can rarely launch, and almost never retrieve without wading into the water. Not a problem during the summer, but in spring, late fall, and winter, well, that water is really cold, LOL.

Interesting thread, enjoyed reading.

Happy boating.

Caruso
 
Last edited:

NYBo

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Oct 23, 2008
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Re: Tongue Weight Problem

As I understand it, the heavier tongue weight recommendations are more about concern that the trailer might pop off the hitch than any other issue.
A trailer without adequate tongue weight tends to sway, which can lead to the tail wagging the dog, sometimes right off the road. I think the only reason you haven't experienced this to any degree is the low overall weight of your loaded trailer.
 

oldjeep

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Re: Tongue Weight Problem

A trailer without adequate tongue weight tends to sway, which can lead to the tail wagging the dog, sometimes right off the road. I think the only reason you haven't experienced this to any degree is the low overall weight of your loaded trailer.

And if you are set up to tow tongue down rather than level it can help reduce the tail wagging. At a minimum I'd get a spare tire mount and put it as far forward on the tongue as you can, that'll get you at least a few lbs on the ball.
 

Carusoswi

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Jun 13, 2009
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Re: Tongue Weight Problem

A trailer without adequate tongue weight tends to sway, which can lead to the tail wagging the dog, sometimes right off the road. I think the only reason you haven't experienced this to any degree is the low overall weight of your loaded trailer.

Well, it's not like I just hook it up and head off without paying attention to the way the entire rig handles. If my rig started to sway, I would make appropriate adjustments by moving the whole pod forward a bit. I think it's about balance and common sense.

I'm not suggesting that one tow a 4k lb rig with zero weight on the tongue - and I certainly wouldn't tow something that big and heavy without a sufficiently beefy towing vehicle.

But I also don't load the rear of my vehicles more than necessary, and, for me, that makes for a pleasantly handling package that doesn't put a lot of strain on my vehicle.

Caruso
 

Carusoswi

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Jun 13, 2009
Messages
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Re: Tongue Weight Problem

I could probably use the spare tire, but I feel no need to add weight just to get more weight on the tongue. The tongue weight on my package is easily adjusted as it is. I think I mentioned that I adjusted weight rearward to reduce tongue weight to my liking.

My rig handles well, and I feel quite safe when I tow.

Caruso
 

Fed

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Apr 1, 2010
Messages
2,457
Re: Tongue Weight Problem

My rig handles well, and I feel quite safe when I tow.
Famous last words Caruso.

One day it will bite you, it will happen going down a steep long hill at 50mph or more and it will happen in the blink of an eye.
You will go from 'feeling quite safe' to a passenger in an out of control vehicle.

I'd like to know the physics that cause it, anyone?
 

Carusoswi

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Jun 13, 2009
Messages
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Re: Tongue Weight Problem

Famous last words. In a previous post, it was suggested that the reason I have not probably experienced problems is because my towing package is so lightweight. Could it rather be that I pay attention to my rig setup and operate within logical physical reality?

When I approach a steep long hill at 50MPH (why would you be driving at "more"), I instinctively look to down-shift my manual tranny to whatever gear satisfies the need, and then proceed down the slope.

I've been driving this rig or similar setups for some 30 years without problems.

I offered my comments on this thread to specifically counter what I purceive (on this thread and in real-life observation) a propensity to seek more power and towing capacity (much more) than is necessary to accomplish the tow safely.

I am not trying to convince anyone committed and comfortable with some fuel guzzling mega truck. If that works for you, great.

But, for the rest of us, I suggest that such massive capability is not really necessary. If you pull a heavier package, then go for a mega towing vehicle.

My observation is that, generally speaking, most of the towing vehicles offer 100% more capacity than needed.

That's ok if that "floats your boat." But I prefer a more economical path that, while cheaper, does not compromise safety.

Use what works for you (functionally or psychologically), it doesnt really matter to me.

I will continue to tow my package, secure in the knowledge that, after some 30 years, age and experience contribute a welcomed sense of security.

Happy boating.

Caruso
 
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