Toyota Land Cruiser. What beats it?

[SoulWinner]

Ok, we hijacked the other thread and I don't like to do that, and I apologize for an offhand remark that resulted in it happening.<br /><br />So,now in it's very thread, I put question to Pierbridge and JohnShan, and everyone who wants to chime in. I hope everyone does. The question is this:<br /><br />What, historically beats the Toyota Land Cruiser? <br /><br />The criteria for this question are this:<br /><br />1) What other vehicle has logged as many miles in punishing and unforgiving terrain(i.e. Sub-Saharan Africa and the Australian Outback), while remaining reliable and low maintenance.<br /><br />2) If you were going to purchase a vehicle that was 10 to 15 years old, with the expectation that the vehicle would last for at least 20 years or 500,000 miles over what it showed on the odometer, what would that vehicle be?<br /><br />3) Pursuant to #2, you would use that vehicle as a daily driver, plus you use it off road, you would put in deep mud at least ten times a year, ford streams no deeper than 5 feet, and take it to off road jamborees featuring obstacle climbing, mud, rough, steep and wildly uneven terrain, and water crossings.<br /><br />For a vehicle that would be expected to achieve all of these things and cost no more than 1500$ a year to service, $2500 including tires, what would that vehicle be? What would top the Toyota Land Cruiser? <br /><br />Don't say Rover because they are officially dead and haven't made an Africa/Outback capable vehicle in decades. If you think Chevy or Jeep are the answerers, then say that, and back it up. Africa is littered with testimonials of my claim that the Toyota Land Cruiser is the toughest vehicle in world, and they are still running. <br /><br />And one more criteria:<br /><br />4) Resale Value. Look at what Toyota Land Cruiser FJ40, FJ60, and FJ80's are selling for. A totally ragged out basket-case FJ 40 fetches at least $3500. Restored versions fetch up wards of $15-20 thousand dollars. Name any other kick a$$ truck made anywhere in the world that can do all these things and shut me up, rather than make lame jokes at my expense and allude to my stupidity. Set me straight here folks and educate me. If I'm in the wrong vehicle for my purposes, let me know what I should be in and I will get one!<br /><br />Thanks to all who participate!<br /><br />P.S.<br /><br />As an afterthought I decided to offer one more criteria. To make this absolutely fair, the last criteria is determined by the respondents to this thread. Come up with what ever you think is the most important aspect of a vehicle that would suite the needs that I have stated. I eagerly await any and all responses.

 

[snapperbait]

Re: Toyota Land Cruiser. What beats it?

If i were in the market for the mack-daddy-go-anywhere vehicle, I'd buy a Humvee... Not the girly-man Hummer of today.. Nooo-sir! The original..<br /><br />Only issue may be service cost...

 

[RPJS]

Re: Toyota Land Cruiser. What beats it?

Soulwinner<br /><br />Landrover are not dead. The Rover car company is no more but Landrover are still very much in business, and still making the Defender<br /><br /> http://www.landrover.com/gb/en/Vehicles/Defender/Defender_overview.htm <br /><br />Its probably not as modern as the Toyota but as an off road vehical it takes some beating

 

[JB]

Re: Toyota Land Cruiser. What beats it?

I think the Mercedes Benz Gelandewagen might be competitive there. <br /><br />How about the Dodge Power Wagon? Had a buddy that stuck a Hemi in one and had a pretty much go-anywhere, anytime machine.<br /><br />I don't think I would want it as a daily driver, but if I had to go anywhere in the world the Mercedes Benz Unimog or an original Hummer would also be attractive.

 

[SoulWinner]

Re: Toyota Land Cruiser. What beats it?

Just my humble opinion, but based on what Car and Driver have reported on the Defender and Discovery, I don't think Land Rover fits. Service costs are high and they are not as dependable over the long haul as Cruisers. But yeah, Rover is gone, I read it in this months Car and Driver.<br /><br />JB, I think you nailed it with the Unimog. The G-Wagon also is very expensive to service, but the Mog is virtually indestructible, and the four door versions would do the trick for my purposes, and go places my Cruiser probably couldn't go. As long as you're not in a hurry to get there.

 

[Andrew Leigh]

Re: Toyota Land Cruiser. What beats it?

You have one advantage SW.<br /><br />You can generally get spares around the world for your cruiser if not immediately certainly within a couple of days.<br /><br />If we are talking about working 4X4's that require real 4X4 ability then the Mog is brilliant, we used them as military vehicles in Zimbabwe when I was on special ops there. Heavy on gas, spares are very expensive and hard to come by and they roll a lot when on poor roads.<br /><br />Probably the best for me (in Africa that is), without the comforts, is the older land cruiser pickup trucks. The single cab type. Those will go where your new cruiser won't. Oversize tyres, raised suspension and a snorkel for the aircleaner. Way to go. <br /><br />However the ultimate looking for me is the quintessential Landrover Defender 110. This vehicle is for me "the" most distinguishable 4X4 ever produced but has sadly been left behind in the comfort stakes. There are not many 4X4's left where all diff's can be locked to get drive through one wheel. The quality on all Landrover 4X4's has suffered badly. Don't class the Range Rover as a working 4X4's.<br /><br />But yup i'm for the Cruiser from a reliability, comfort, looks, spares and performance perspective the rest are too specialist and expensive.

 

[Bondo]

Re: Toyota Land Cruiser. What beats it?

What, historically beats the Toyota Land Cruiser?

Historically,..??........<br /><br />And then Disqualify the Land Rover,..........????<br /><br />Until Toyota gets 50 Years of Production of the F-40 Behind them,.............<br />The F-40 will Always be #2,.......<br /><br />Right behind the series Land Rovers........<br /><br />I've got a 1967 ser.IIA, 5 door 109", Diesel,......<br />And,...<br />A 1973 88" ser.III........

 

[SoulWinner]

Re: Toyota Land Cruiser. What beats it?

Bondo, You have point, since I am talking about a ten to fifteen year old vehicle, LR would have to be in the fight. From the reserch I have done tells me that the Land Rover is much more expensive to maintain than the Cruiser. I'm surprised no one has mentioned the Nissan Patrole.<br /><br />I'm happy for the input from Andrew, now we need to hear from some folks from Australia.<br /><br />Oh, Bondo, I wish my cruiser was diesel, butthe only way to get a diesel Cruiser in America is to bring one in from Canada, or do the conversion yourself; and that is a REAl pain. It sux that the real trucks go to Australia and Africa and not to America. There is a market here them, it may not be huge, but the market does exist.

 

[JB]

Re: Toyota Land Cruiser. What beats it?

That's twice you have knocked a superior vehicle for being "expensive to maintain", SW.<br /><br />I dispute both claims.<br /><br />A 1983 G300D recently tripped from SoCal to Tierra Del Fuego and back without a breakdown. If they don't break they can't be expensive to maintain. <br /><br />I am sure that there are volumes of similar tales about LR vehicles.

 

[PierBridge]

Re: Toyota Land Cruiser. What beats it?

Originally posted by SoulWinner:<br /> Ok, we hijacked the other thread and I don't like to do that. .

levittownnick was having a 4 wheel drive problem and Soulwinner chimed in.<br /><br />Originally posted by levittownnick:<br />Any suggestions? <br /><br /> Get a Toyota, one that was made in Japan. I recomend the Land Cruiser.<br /><br />Here are some of Soulwinners other thoughts.<br /> <br />

if he had a Land Cruiser he wouldn't be worrying about what's wrong with an American made POS

The big three refuse to bui;ld anything but junk. In fact, after owning an American made Toyota, I don't think the US has any business building cars, because every thing built in America is junk

I punish my vehicles and play hard and nothing made in America can handle it.

Ralph, those are all American made POS Japanese Toyota wannabe's. The reason fleets are made of American junk is because GM, Ford, etc., practically give them away to fleet users. A sales and marketing device invented by Lee Iacocca to save Chrysler when it was dieing.

Screw American made motor vehicles. Ford F-250's were such heaps of crap that a local company that supplies birds to pet shops nation wide, lost their behinds two years when every one of their trucks were broken down in different cities across the US with bad transmissions. An F-250 can't haul some birds? Well of course not, it wasn't built in Japan.

<br /><br />

they are laying off 25,000 workers (if you want to call them that).

with Toyota building junk in America, maybe now GM will have a fighting chance.

Basicly he was arguing an apple to oranges comparison. You can't compare a "real truck" 3/4 or 1 ton Ford, Dodge or Chevy to a rare and very expensive Toyota SUV.

 

[PierBridge]

Re: Toyota Land Cruiser. What beats it?

If I'm in the wrong vehicle for my purposes, let me know what I should be in and I will get one! <br />[/QB]

We never said you were in the wrong vehicle we told you your 92 to 97 Japanese made Toyota Land Cruiser was fine. And would last a long time giving you plenty of time to find another 92 to 97 Japanese made Toyota Land Cruiser giving you 4 total 92 to 97 Japanese made Toyota Land Cruisers.<br /><br />What we did not agree on you with was your 92 to 97 Japanese made Toyota Land Cruiser holding a candle too a Full Size American 3/4 ton pick up truck in an Construction or Heavy duty environment <br />

 

[Nos4r2]

Re: Toyota Land Cruiser. What beats it?

That's not a fair comparison unless you get open-body land cruisers over there.<br /><br />Saying that, all the British construction firms use either Japanese (or derivative) 4x4 pickups or Land Rover vans and pickups.The unimog simply isn't competitive due to the body height-you can't realistically load one without a forklift.<br /><br />The defender is an incredibly good vehicle. It's not meant to be comfortable-it's purely utilitarian.It will do evrything you ask of it and come back for more. How many of your trucks can you clean out with a hose and a scrubbing brush on the INSIDE without trashing them? You can do that to a defender-I've done it on many an occasion.Can't do that in my Rocky-cloth seats!<br /><br />BTW, Just to reiterate RPJS's point, Rover have been dead and gone for some time.MG Rover are the company that have just gone to the wall.<br />Land Rover are a completely different company and are in no way associated with MG Rover's demise.

 

[SoulWinner]

Re: Toyota Land Cruiser. What beats it?

JB, I did some research and I was pretty much blown away. It is so cool to see that the mighty G-Wagon is being used to the extremes that it was designed to be used. I really hate to see what the few G's there are around here that never even see a dirt road. I loved seeing them lifted with ARB bumpers and snorkels, and safari racks. And the ones I saw that were set up for off road use had Diesel engines!!!!! YES! Thanks for the education, but I have to ask, are you suggesting that Germain engineering trumps Detroit engineering? Just kidding <br /><br /><br />Anyhoo, for PierBridge, you seem to think that Cruiser are just big, heavy grocery getters. Not at all, here's a link that will show what the Cruiser is still capable of doing. I don't climb rocks (no rocks to climb around here) but I do punish my trucks off road. Check this out:<br /><br /> Mighty Land Cruisers <br /><br />I think you'll be surprised.

 

[JB]

Re: Toyota Land Cruiser. What beats it?

It's a cultural thing, SW.<br /><br />The Teutonic culture is obsessed with precision and elegance in design.<br /><br />The Japanese culture is obsessed with disciplined excellence in execution.<br /><br />The N. American culture is obsessed with value and profitability.<br /><br />Draw your own conclusions.

 

[SoulWinner]

Re: Toyota Land Cruiser. What beats it?

Yes JB, what the heck happened between 1900 and 2000 to change our culture? Was it the ecconomic expansion post WWII? Was it the cultural revolution of the 60's? At any rate, I sure don't the direction we have taken.

 

[PierBridge]

Re: Toyota Land Cruiser. What beats it?

<br /> Anyhoo, for PierBridge, you seem to think that Cruiser are just big, heavy grocery getters. I think you'll be surprised. [/QB]

No not at all they are a very good very reliable truck/suv and do quite well off road I have few friends that have them both stock and modded.<br />It was just the method "attitude" you used get your point across that rubbed some of us the wrong way.<br /><br />Sorry if I affended you in anyway.

 

[Darren Smith]

Re: Toyota Land Cruiser. What beats it?

I'm going to throw in my opinions on this. The first question is which Land Cruiser are we talking about? I can think of 4 models. <br />1)The short little 2 door FJ 40. <br />Main competition, we have: Jeep, 60 and early 70's Bobtail Broncos, Patrol, Defender 90, all equally capable. I'll take the Jeep or the Defender 90.<br />2)the pickup FJ45.<br />Not much in this class, a Patrol had a similar setup, as did Land Rover,but you could put the U.S. small trucks in this catagory, but they don't really match up. I'll give this one to the Toyota.<br />3)2 door Land Cruiser fullsize new body. A rare truck in the states, but available many other places. <br />Here we can compare the large new Patrol, about equal. Then there is the Blazer (dicontinued) the Bronco (dicontinued) and the Ramcharger (discontinued). The U.S. brands all had a higher towing capacity. In the U.S. they are much cheaper to repair, and with the equivelent maintenance last equally as long. Give me a 1988 Blazer, solid axle front and rear. Bullet proof!<br />4) the large 4 door new body.<br />Compare the Patrol. perhaps the Defender 110, but its a bit smaller. The H1, Suburban and Excursion all outmatch the landcruiser in terms of towing, power and hauling capabilities. And beleive it or not they are reliable! My Sub is reliable. 1994, pushing 140,000 miles. No major engine work, or any other work. Most of the Land Cruiser around here at that age are done, sitting with blown motors or sold for scrap! There is a few left, don't get me wrong, but most are gone. Mostly the ones I see around here are New shiny ones driven by the rediculously wealthy. They park it next to their BMW.

 

[Dunaruna]

Re: Toyota Land Cruiser. What beats it?

My other passtime (boating is #1) is off road driving - bush camping. I have owned suzuki, jeep, patrol, suburu, landrover and cruiser (62 series sahara). With the right tyres, all were capable offroad vehicles but these are not just for offroad - they are primarily used for day to day transport on the black top. <br /><br />The cruiser & patrol stand out in terms of cheap maintenance, bullet proof gearboxes/diffs/engines and comfort - and they are more than capable offroad. IMO.<br /><br />Aldo

 

[SoulWinner]

Re: Toyota Land Cruiser. What beats it?

Originally posted by PierBridge:<br /> <br />Sorry if I affended you in anyway.

Not at all, that's why I started this thread, so we could discuss it with some modicum of objectivity.<br /><br />Aldo, thanks for chiming in. I was really hoping some of our Aussie friends would. What do you think of the 80 seriese?<br /><br />KnotAddicted, I am specifically asking about the FJ-80, 1992-1997. Tell me about the Land Cruisers down there that are being scrapped. Are they Bandeirante's? There are few styles of those that would LOVE import to the US, especially the extended cab and four door pick-up trucks. The troop carrier versions would also be worth while to bring in the US. Please, tell me what you have down there.

 

[Dunaruna]

Re: Toyota Land Cruiser. What beats it?

I like the 80, especially the 4.0L 1HZ turbo diesel, I'm not a big fan of the 4.5L twin cam gas guzzler though, the early 4.0iL was better IMO. I'm also a bit old fashion, I prefer leaf sprung suspension when tackling serious tracks - but that's just me, the soft ride of the 80 handles offroad very well. They have the same bullet proof diffs/boxes as their predecessors. <br /><br />There is also another often overlooked consideration when offroading, in Australia landcruiser are very common and because of that most of our bush tracks develope over time into landcruiser 'size', especially the wheel ruts. Smaller & larger 4x4's (mogs, F trucks, suzukis etc) have a lot of trouble because they don't 'fit'. Does that make sense? Maybe this'll help explain.<br /><br /><br />62 series sahara 4.0L <br /><br />The next vehicle to follow me up this hill was a jeep cherekee, he tipped onto his side at this very point, suspension was too soft and his approach was way wrong.<br /><br />Aldo