Toyota Land Cruiser. What beats it?

Ralph 123

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Re: Toyota Land Cruiser. What beats it?

You can buy 2.25 Chevy Silverados for that! You can have two and carry a bed full of spare parts :D You'll go a million miles at least!
 

JB

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Re: Toyota Land Cruiser. What beats it?

I have probably been lucky with my MLs. I have had very little or no trouble with either of them.<br /><br />The MBs I had in the 60s, 70s and 80s were bulletproof. All made in Germany.<br /><br />But all German makes are currently experiencing significant reliability problems. That means MB, BMW, VW and Audi. Too much technology too soon, I guess. They all get a F in reliability, no matter where they are made.<br /><br />That said, Consumer Reports also rates the F150 as poor in reliability. Other Ford models rate medium to high. The Focus is a real winner.<br /><br />My ML320 sold new for $41600 and my ML430 sold new for $46K. I bought both of them used to avoid any initial quality problems. I bought the ML430 (a '99) in 2004 for $24,500 with 57K miles on it. It is still a new truck.<br /><br />One person's experience with one vehicle is completely useless to predict anything at all, except maybe whether that person would buy another of that model.<br /><br />Consumer Reports ratings are based on feedback from anywhere from 5,000 to 50,000 owners (per model) and includes no hearsay.<br /><br />Toyota, Subaru, Honda and Nissan vehicles consistently get high ratings for reliability without regard to where they are made.<br /><br />I believe that is the result of company policy on management of quality control, which, interestingly enough, is descended from American programs called "Zero Defects" and "Management By Objectives". The Japanese listened and adopted them. The Americans already knew everything and didn't change until they were on the ropes.<br /><br />The Germans still know everything except why their expensive luxury models need so much repair.
 

Skinnywater

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Re: Toyota Land Cruiser. What beats it?

The American car companys and the European car companys spend a tremendous amount of money on research and development (R&D). The amount is factored into the price of production and ultimately the price to the consumer.<br />The Asians are notoriously known to buy several of their competetors finished product and duplicate it almost nut for nut, bolt for bolt. This includes the expensive R&D.<br />They even wait long enough before launching their copy to improve on any post production glitches and bugs.<br />They save so much money on R&D, post production fixes and other cost cutting measures associated with them that they can afford to "dump" an excellent product at a relatively lower price.<br /><br />
So, what about MB? Are the American made MB's as good as the ones from Germany?<br />
I know the answer first hand....absolutely NOT! For several reason direct and indirect.<br /><br />The American made product is built to a price. Not built and then priced accordingly.<br />The American made product isn't made to compete with world product it's made to compete with domestic product. The American made product uses American components and American suppliers, Delphi, Johnson Controls, Borg Warner, Timkin, PPG, General Tire, etc.,etc.<br /><br />JB is absolutely correct that the European made automobiles are taking some serious hits against their once high reliability and quality reputations. The reason is very simple. They are the only companys pushing the envelope with new technology. They are all striving ultimately to have the absolute safest vehicle that can essentially "drive itself" and with the lowest possible maintenence. This is the ultimate goal of the European car manufactures.<br />This can be best explained in this way.<br />The United States makes a very expensive, unreliable and troublesome reuseable space vehicles (the Space Shuttle fleet.) Yet it should be noted America build the best shuttle in the world. <br />Where the US is light years ahead in Aerospace. The Europeans are light years ahead in automobiles.<br />It's just a heck of a lot easier to duplicate a new models R&D and put a reasonable copy into production.<br />Back in '97 the 4x4(4ETS)operating system in JB's ML was purely engineering genius far superior as an fulltime fully automatic all wheel drive, so simple and cheap. Within 2 years it was copied first by BMW, then Rover, VW, Porsche,Japan jumped on it, and finally Detroit.<br />I still have to give it to Detroit, they do a lot more R&D than Japan does.<br />Japans marketing is so good many think Lexus comes out with a lot of new things. But if you're thinking it's the latest and greatest from Honda or Toyota, It'll be a least 3 years into production on a Benz or BMW.<br /><br />I sure don't take it personal like you Soul Winner or even you DJ. <br />Ford, Chevy, Diamler Chrysler, Toyota, Kraft Foods, Walmart, Disney or even GE. They ain't my freinds and they ain't my "brothers".<br />There is only me and everyone else, the rest is only filler. <br /><br />Oh and SoulWinner, another reality check, we gotta keep it real man. <br />All through the '90's the most troublesome part on the V6 Ford Rangers were those stinkin' Made in Japan Mazda 5 speed transmissions. My daughters '98 4x4 has over 200k the only repairs other than wear items was a trans under warranty. Another at 87K and then again at 162K where it took some of my American know how to modify the mainshaft to increase oiling to the mainshaft brg and pocket brgs.<br /><br />The G52 5 speed trans in Toyota 4x4's PU's keep me in cash money replacing starved mainshaft bearings that start howling every 100k.<br /><br />Gentleman.....we can't eat them or make mad passionate love to them......just run whatcha brung. ;)
 
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DJ

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Re: Toyota Land Cruiser. What beats it?

They ain't my freinds and they ain't my "brothers".<br />
That's what is wrong with this country. Everyone is out for # 1, be damned with my neighbor. Our sense of community was something our parents/grandparents and ancestors enjoyed and could count on. Not anymore.<br /><br />"Brothers" meant "brothers in Christ".
 

SoulWinner

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Re: Toyota Land Cruiser. What beats it?

DJ, one of the worst purveyors of the whole "out for #1" attitude are the unions, like the UAW. Unions have forced the costs of American cars and other manufactured products beyond competitive prices, so manufacturing has moved out of the country. What good did the unions ultimately do? They forced companies to close or move their operations off-shore. Either way the jobs are still gone and the unions are to blame. Not to mention the quality issues. I'm sorry, but they got what they asked for, and haven't learned a thing. Hard to feel sympathy them.
 
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DJ

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Re: Toyota Land Cruiser. What beats it?

Who mentioned unions? No argument here. There are allot of people that are NOT unionized in that industry. US industry of ALL kinds, for that matter. Yours truly included. <br /><br />I just take offense to anyone saying that anything I (an American) creates/designs/builds or provides is to be considered "junk". Your words, not mine.
 

SoulWinner

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Re: Toyota Land Cruiser. What beats it?

This is just my personal experience DJ, and I never intended to offend you. I just haven't had good experience with an American made automobile since I sold my 1968 GMC. My folks were die hard GM drivers until they finally realized that I couldn't kill my Toyota's. After I studied the US auto industry in college, my conclusion was that unions have caused a lot of damage to the US manufacturing base and are culturally counterproductive.
 

JB

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Re: Toyota Land Cruiser. What beats it?

Unions? Who started on unions?<br /><br />I thought we were talking about Toyotas.<br /><br />Hmmm. I have had a few Toy-otas and a couple of Kub-otas. Someday I want a REAL-ota.
 
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DJ

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Re: Toyota Land Cruiser. What beats it?

As long as we don't have Qu-otas.
 

Realgun

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Re: Toyota Land Cruiser. What beats it?

2) If you were going to purchase a vehicle that was 10 to 15 years old, with the expectation that the vehicle would last for at least 20 years or 500,000 miles over what it showed on the odometer, what would that vehicle be?<br />
Who, in their right mind, would buy a 15 year old vehicle and then expect to put another 300-400 thousand miles on it trouble free?<br /><br />Best be is alway a 2-3 year old vehicle to keep up with technology. We don't live in Africa so do we really need that kind of low mainteance?<br /><br />Actually I wanted one of those vehicles after watching Wild Kingdom on TV as a kid however I grew up. :D
 

Nos4r2

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Re: Toyota Land Cruiser. What beats it?

To quote Skinnywater:-The American made product uses American components and American suppliers, Delphi, Johnson Controls, Borg Warner, Timkin, PPG, General Tire, etc.,etc.<br /><br /><br />So do the Europeans.<br />Renault use Johnson Controls, timken bearings etc etc. We don't get General tyres over here unless we import them specifically though. I work agencies as a trucker and we have a big Honda car plant in town so I often work in the transport side of their service industries. I've done the same for Renault until they moved their UK spares warehouse 100 miles away.<br /><br />From what I've personally seen he majority of actual mechanical parts are made by the same companies for a lot of the big car companies-and they all cross over. For example, one plant in South Wales I went to I picked up 10 tons of suspension components for Honda. The same japanese company was making suspension and steering parts for Renault,Rover, Nissan and BMW.Another company make the instruments for Ford and Honda. Etc etc etc.<br />It appears that the only components made in-house are the engines and bodypanels.<br /><br />This suggests to me that the problem really doesn't lie in the workmanship, the unions or the workers. I think it's probably down to the mindset of the company directors and the designers that are churning out the designs that they are told to.
 

KRS

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Re: Toyota Land Cruiser. What beats it?

Traded my 1977 FJ40 for my boat.... so I guess that boating won afterall !
 
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