Tried new Hustler

mdunn

Petty Officer 2nd Class
Joined
Oct 7, 2007
Messages
186
Had a Yamaha 13 x 19 on my F115. Was getting a little dinged up so bought the Hustler 13.5 x 19.
On the old prop wot was right at 6000 and 39 mph, gps.
I was surprised that with the new prop wot was 5600 rpm and 41.5 mph.
You experts think I should go with a 17 pitch? That's the next one down.
Boat is a 17.5 Smokercraft. I fish with it. No tubing or skiing.
Thanks
 

Irv964

Petty Officer 1st Class
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May 3, 2008
Messages
315
Re: Tried new Hustler

Had a Yamaha 13 x 19 on my F115. Was getting a little dinged up so bought the Hustler 13.5 x 19.
On the old prop wot was right at 6000 and 39 mph, gps.
I was surprised that with the new prop wot was 5600 rpm and 41.5 mph.
You experts think I should go with a 17 pitch? That's the next one down.
Boat is a 17.5 Smokercraft. I fish with it. No tubing or skiing.
Thanks[/QUOT

That shows one the differences between prop manufacturer's and why it is always a crap shoot when it comes to picking the best prop for ones application, it is not an exact science.
Personally I would try the 17P, that should put you right back at 6000rpm which, I am thinking, may give you another mile or 2 per hour? (if thats what your after?)
Going from my 19P black max to my 19P Hustler netted me another 2 to 300 hundred rpm, in your case your rpms dropped, interesting.......Irv964
 

mdunn

Petty Officer 2nd Class
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Oct 7, 2007
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186
Re: Tried new Hustler

Thanks for the response.
What I'm after is the best match up for my motor in terms of fuel economy and insuring that I'm not over or under propped.
Whether I can 38 or 42 at WOT is not very important.
I want my motor to be as happy as possible.
 

Randybeall

Petty Officer 1st Class
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May 2, 2008
Messages
319
Re: Tried new Hustler

Good thinking, motors are to expensive to play otherwise. Seems the 17 pitch Hustler would be a better bet for you.
 

Dhadley

Supreme Mariner
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Feb 4, 2001
Messages
16,978
Re: Tried new Hustler

I would never drop pitch simply to gain rpm. That's a last resort only and in most cases you'll lose efficiency. If it were mine I'd work the set up to gain the needed rpm on an obviously more efficient prop than you had.
 

Irv964

Petty Officer 1st Class
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May 3, 2008
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315
Re: Tried new Hustler

I would never drop pitch simply to gain rpm. That's a last resort only and in most cases you'll lose efficiency. If it were mine I'd work the set up to gain the needed rpm on an obviously more efficient prop than you had.

Dhadley, not disputing you but in his original post he stated that his Yamaha prop was letting his motor reach it's maximum rpm. To me that tells me his set-up and motor are running fine, no?
I think the main reason he dropped from 6000 to 5600 rpm was the fact that he went to a different prop manufacturer? I personally don't see any issues or the need to "work the set-up"? What exactly are you refering too? Motor height or tune up or both?
I know I had opposite results with my switch to Turning Point, I went from 5700-5800 rpm to 6000 is that what your thinking? Something with his set-up is incorrect? Just curious is all.
P.S. in my quest to find a prop, most sites stated either a 19P or 17P prop for my motor/boat combination depending on application: 19P for performance and top speed and the 17P for heavy loads and/or water sports? How else would you gain rpm other than by switching props? .........Irv964
 

Dhadley

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Feb 4, 2001
Messages
16,978
Re: Tried new Hustler

With the first prop the reason the motor got to 6000 was beacuse of the over 21% slip. That could be because it was worn or from blade design. In any case the second prop was much more efficient (no matter why) and the slip was at 12%.

The second prop has more "bite" - again no matter why. We'll assume it is a little better design. Or maybe the first prop, when new, had more speed. It really doesn't matter.

In any case he gained 10% in slip and 2.5 mph. The new prop has enough bite that if the set up is tweaked, starting with X dimension, he may recove some or all of the 400 rpm. In any case whatever he gains will again decrease slip % and gain efficiency.

Lets assume he raises the motor slightly and the prop design and hull design responds favorably. Even if he stayed at 12% slip his speed (theroriticaly) would be at about 42+, almost 43. Any gain in slip % would net even more speed. Therefore it would be more efficient over the entire rpm range.
 

Randybeall

Petty Officer 1st Class
Joined
May 2, 2008
Messages
319
Re: Tried new Hustler

Good points. Questions would be do you have any problems with ventilation/cavitation with the Hustler. If not, can you raise the engine a little and try it again? Have you experimented with trim both up and down for your speed run?
 

mdunn

Petty Officer 2nd Class
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Oct 7, 2007
Messages
186
Re: Tried new Hustler

Good points. Questions would be do you have any problems with ventilation/cavitation with the Hustler. If not, can you raise the engine a little and try it again? Have you experimented with trim both up and down for your speed run?

I'm not sure I'd recognize a problem with ventilation or cavitation.
Any help there would be appreciated.
I could try to adjust the height of the motor although it looks like a bit of a chore. Pretty darn heavy so I'd have to build something to hoist from.
When I was trying the new prop yesterday I was really surprised at how the reacted to a little up trim. It made a much bigger difference then with the old prop. She really felt like it was up higher on the step and running better/faster.
 

mickjetblue

Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Aug 23, 2007
Messages
509
Re: Tried new Hustler

If your old prop was "dinged up", then it could not have been doing the amount
of work that it should have been doing. Consequently, your rpms were higher
than what they probably should have been.

Maybe your new prop is optimum for your setup.

Fishing is your main activity. If you are cruising form one spot to another,
then your top speed ain't that critical. If you are in a big time hurry to get to
the next fishing spot, that's another story and completely different scenario.

The Hustler I had was a good prop for all around purposes.

There is some trial and error, usually, in getting the best prop for the setup, then if something changes in the setup, well, Good luck!
 

Randybeall

Petty Officer 1st Class
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Messages
319
Re: Tried new Hustler

Good response to trim up is a good sign. Did you trim all the way up? Cavitation would be when the prop started breaking loose from the water and letting the engine rev on up with out going faster. If that starts to occure then trim back down just enough to stop it.
As for lifting the engine, someone else posted a convienent routine for a boat on a trailer. Place the engine in the up right position, loosen the two bolts on the slid part of the mounting, remove the two bolts on the holes of the mounting. With the front jack of the trailer all the way down place blocks of wood under the skeg. Have some one else slowely raise the jack on the toung until the skeg presses down on the blocks and slides up to match the next hole. Put some marine sealer, your choice, in the hole or on the bolt to seal the wood in the transom and install the bolt in the new position. Tighten all 4 bolts solidly, let down the jack and you have raised the engine. It was so easy for me I felt foolish that I had previously used a cherry picker at the shop. Anyhow, try one step up and go through the range of trim again. Best results are frequently to have it high enough that at full up trim it begins to ventilate/cavitate.
 

Dhadley

Supreme Mariner
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Feb 4, 2001
Messages
16,978
Re: Tried new Hustler

Top speed and top rpm is always critical. You always want the max efficiency at wot with an average load to maintain top efficiency at all rpm's. If you're lugging the motor at wot, you're lugging the motor at cruise. If you have excessive slip at wot, you have excessive slip at cruise.

If you happen to have a fuel flow meter you'll see that now you're getting better fuel mileage than you were. Once you gain a couple hundered or even the 400, it'll be better yet.
 

mdunn

Petty Officer 2nd Class
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Oct 7, 2007
Messages
186
Re: Tried new Hustler

Thanks to evereyone for the great info. Very, very imformative.
My anti-cav plate is aout an 1-1/2" above the keel right now.
I'll have to consider raising it although I felt like the boat was handling really good the other day when I trimmed up some with the new prop on. I never felt it get up on the step like it did with the old prop. I was by myself so I couldn't go back and look at the anti-cav plate to see where it was at but I'll take someone out and have a look.
 

Dhadley

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Feb 4, 2001
Messages
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Re: Tried new Hustler

Lookong may or may not tell anything. Testing is what will tell. Changing the motor height is about the least costly thing you can do that will possibly result in the most gain. Plus you can always put it back, again at almost no cost.

You've obviously paid good money for technology in the prop. Now we need to take advantage of it. As you can tell not all 19" props are created equal.
 

jeffnick

Senior Chief Petty Officer
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May 24, 2004
Messages
695
Re: Tried new Hustler

Personally, I'd just try the 17 before I did anything else.
 

Dhadley

Supreme Mariner
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Feb 4, 2001
Messages
16,978
Re: Tried new Hustler

Buying a less efficient prop vs not spending any more $$ to take advantage of what you've already paid for? Really?
 

walleyehed

Admiral
Joined
Jun 29, 2003
Messages
6,767
Re: Tried new Hustler

As Dhadley said, it's much easier to lift the engine than one may think.
I must also agree with why spend money on another prop when you can lift the engine for nothing basically and increase the efficiency in the process..
I guess if extra fuel savings and increased speed at the correct RPM is not what you want, then leave it put and continue spending more money.
 

Irv964

Petty Officer 1st Class
Joined
May 3, 2008
Messages
315
Re: Tried new Hustler

With the first prop the reason the motor got to 6000 was beacuse of the over 21% slip. That could be because it was worn or from blade design. In any case the second prop was much more efficient (no matter why) and the slip was at 12%.

The second prop has more "bite" - again no matter why. We'll assume it is a little better design. Or maybe the first prop, when new, had more speed. It really doesn't matter.

In any case he gained 10% in slip and 2.5 mph. The new prop has enough bite that if the set up is tweaked, starting with X dimension, he may recove some or all of the 400 rpm. In any case whatever he gains will again decrease slip % and gain efficiency.

Lets assume he raises the motor slightly and the prop design and hull design responds favorably. Even if he stayed at 12% slip his speed (theroriticaly) would be at about 42+, almost 43. Any gain in slip % would net even more speed. Therefore it would be more efficient over the entire rpm range.

Thanks for the explanation Dhadley, that makes sense what your saying but I am still a little confused, hopefully he will chime back in and let us know what numbers he was running when his prop was in new condition?
That being said and reading his above post about motor height etc, could it be that his motor/boat combo is already set at it's optimum level now and that his factory prop was so ineffecient it allowed him to reach 6000rpm?
Most of the 115 motors that I have seen from the dealer for his type of boat come with 17P props, I am not sure why but the 90's seem to come with 19P props?
I know there is only one way to know for sure and that is raising the motor but to me it seems like a lot of work only to find out his motor is already in it's optimum position? I think the 17P is what he needs or how else could one possibly know what exactly the right prop was for any application?
Let me try to rephrase that? He stated he was able to reach 6000 rpm with his current prop, assuming I bought my boat with my Black Max and it gave me exactly 6000 rpms, had a great holeshot, very little cavitation etc, would I not think the motor was running mint and this was the perfect prop?
How would I know unless I started playing with motor height? Assuming this is the case then what your saying is any new boat with an outboard should always be raised/lowered just to make sure they are running the right prop?
I think that 17P would work perfect and by the sounds of his engine height, he is already there or very close to it's optimum engine height?
Assuming he raises his motor and with his current TP 19P prop he reaches 6000 rpm, perfect right? Then he dings this up and needs a replacement and chooses say a Michigan wheel the next time and he sees 6400rpm? Then he is back into lowering his motor again, no? My point being, how would one possibly know what "perfect is" if everything changes every time you throw a new prop on? That is why I am thinking the 17P he is thinking about purcahsing now would be perfect without having to fool around a bunch of times with engine height etc?
I hope that makes sense? I have a hard time putting what I am thinking into words!
Like stated above, not disputing you, just trying to learn is all. Thanks again............Irv964
 

mdunn

Petty Officer 2nd Class
Joined
Oct 7, 2007
Messages
186
Re: Tried new Hustler

Hey Irv,
Thanks so much for your interest and great input and questions.
I don't have any data regarding performance when the prop was in new condition. I bought the boat a year ago and I think the prop was pretty much in the condition it is in now.
I know a lot of knowledgable folks are telling me to find the correct "X" dimension before I throw more money at a prop and I understand the logic behind that and appreciate that advice as well.
I'll do the height adjustment if needed however I have gone ahead and ordered the 17" Hustler to see what that does. Now I have a spare or I can sell it.
Iboats was out of stock unfortunately but found another source.
Thanks again for asking those good questions way better then I did.
 
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