Tried to search...no luck

Hydraboss

Cadet
Joined
Jan 16, 2005
Messages
11
When you have a question...go to those who may have answers. I'm somewhat of a boating newbie and I am looking for some suggestions. I bought a 2002 Campion Allante 545i with a VP4.3L SX 190hp. www.campionboats.com/2005/allante/545.php <br />I'm running a aluminum 3 blade 21p prop (OEM) and I'm topping out around 46mph @ approx 4200rpm. The manufacturer says the boat will do about 53mph with a 23p SS. <br />Ok, enough of the setup. I really never run above 35-40mph (still too novice), but I do pull tubes (singles, 3-man) and wakeboards. The boat gets up on plane not bad while pulling, but when I try to power out of a turn, it seems to over-rev (ventilate/cavitate?). My dealer suggested running a High 5 SS 19p prop and hydrofoil to combat this.<br />My questions are this: (told you there would be a question eventually!) <br />1) Do you think the High 5 will improve the play-around performance of my boat? I couldn't care less about top speed over 40mph.<br />2) Anyone know if the Campion website's rating of 4425 WOT is even close to right?<br />Thanks for any help you can provide.<br /><br />p.s. - this board is fantastic...keep up the good work.<br />Hydraboss
 

walleyehed

Admiral
Joined
Jun 29, 2003
Messages
6,767
Re: Tried to search...no luck

Some of the 6's are turning 5000RPM, but if yours says 4425, then stick around the 4500 mark. That being said, your 21P is providing 4200 RPM...too low. The advice to go to a stainless 19" would be good advice in my mind.<br />The high-5, I'm not sold on that, nor am I sold on the fin...it may help plane faster, but other issues come into play at top-end.<br />A good quality 19P SS in a 3 blade will give you better hole-shot and most likely close to the same top-end, but your WOT RPM will be where it should be.<br />You are ventilating when turning which can be an inefficient prop, too high of trim , etc., I'm guessing in this case it's a combination of both.
 

bayman

Senior Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Feb 2, 2000
Messages
669
Re: Tried to search...no luck

Hey Hydraboss, you have a good question there. I have never used the High 5. I will say though that for many tow sports, wakeboarding and water skiing included, 4 blade props are the standard. 4 blade props have the following characteristics:<br /><br />- they grip better in turns than a 3 blade<br />- they give you a better hole-shot, meaning they are faster getting you onto plane<br />- usually they aren't quite as fast on the top end as a 3 blade, but offer good overall performance
 

Hydraboss

Cadet
Joined
Jan 16, 2005
Messages
11
Re: Tried to search...no luck

wally and bayman, thanks for the input. A buddy of mine (who knows his *ss from a holeshot in the ground) tested the boat and took the revs up to about 4800, but it sounded too loud to me (obviously used to my truck engine). I told him to slow it down before he cost me an engine. This is, however, the same buddy that agreed with the Campion dealer about the High 5. He also told me to check if I could get a ported version. Does ported really make that much difference? I really am not concerned with cost of the prop, and I don't care about going over 40mph. Is there any agreement on prop choice? I should clarify that when I'm powering out of a corner, I have the trim all the way down. Sorry if I'm just restating the original question. Don't you just hate when people are repetive and keep repeating themselves too?
 

bayman

Senior Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Feb 2, 2000
Messages
669
Re: Tried to search...no luck

I'm not familiar enough with your boat to give recommendations. However, even if you don't need the top end, I generally recommend that people get a prop that works in the right RPM range.<br /><br />Taking a look at aluminum vs stainless steel, is there one you want over the other? The main advantage of aluminum is the lower cost. Steel is stronger and longer lasting, of course.<br /><br />What you do with your boat is important too. How much load you carry, if you do tow sports, how shallow the water is etc.. There are actually a number of things to look at. I do recommend a backup prop too - in case the primary is damaged and can't get you back to shore. Usually a low-cost aluminum prop, stored safely, is a good backup. Some people have 2 props because they do different things with the boat though. For example, when in the shallows they may run their beat-up prop. Or if they have 10 people on the boat, maybe they need to prop it differently as opposed to just going fishing with one buddy.<br /><br />Well, let us know what you have in mind.
 

walleyehed

Admiral
Joined
Jun 29, 2003
Messages
6,767
Re: Tried to search...no luck

Looking at the spec chart 4425 was all it would turn with the 23P....Need to look futher into max RPM figures from the manufacturer.<br />4800RPM isn't really "high" for a V6, and matches up perfectly with a 400RPM Drop you should get with a 2" pitch change-hence 4425 with a 23.<br />If it were me (it's not) I would go with a Stiletto Bay Pro-II, 45420 series in a 14-1/4X20 4-Blade if your dead-set on bottom and mid-range capabilities.
 

Hydraboss

Cadet
Joined
Jan 16, 2005
Messages
11
Re: Tried to search...no luck

Kenny, thanks for the recommendation. I will look into the Stiletto. Bayman, your line of questions I can answer. The 21p alum I'm running now will be my backup in case stupidity sets in (running shallow) or if I just want to go faster. I usually have about three of four people in the boat when I'm towing. 95% of the time I'm probably not exceeding 30mph. The lake we're at is very narrow and deep right from shore. There are WAY too many boats on a nice day to really let you open it up. What I am hoping for is to attain the "scare-the-crap-out-of-the-wife" bottom end. When we tested the boat (in about 2 1/2' waves) we couldn't get her to lose grip, no matter what we tried, so I know it can handle a way "steeper" prop than I have. I am also curious if a "ported" prop really makes as much difference as I have been told. Kenny, you say to look further into rpm's from the manufacturer. Unfortunately, the boat manufacturer is about as useful as a bladeless knife without a handle. Any suggestions where to get more info?<br />I know it seems like I'm asking for a lot out of a piece of metal, but all I really want is to take my underpowered boat and make it perform like a $60k hi-perf bass boat for under a grand, have ex-playboy bunnies change my prop and polish the boat for me, and have a beer cooler that is always full.<br />That's not asking too much....is it?<br /><br />Thanks again<br />Greg
 

Jdeagro

iboats.com Partner
Joined
Jul 30, 2003
Messages
1,682
Re: Tried to search...no luck

Hydraboss;<br />I can help but jump in on this thread, and if I am out of line just ignore this.<br /><br />This is classic - the boat dealer is suggesting a $25.00 Hydrofoil, and a lower gear (propeller) to solve a performance problem on a very nice $25,000 to $30,000 boat. He would have had more credibility if he said I don't have a clue and could care less about your desires (performance requirements).<br /><br />It is also classic to look at changing a prop to cure boat attitude and handling issues, but it is only half the answer, and the last half at that.<br /><br />Yes I make Smart Tabs and many people may say that I am biased. If I believe in my product I should be, but keep that in mind as I give you some info. I think you will see some logic in what I am about to say.<br /><br />First, you should be pulling about 4500 RPMs at WOT, so you are a bit low. Can you trim the motor out (to perpendicular) without porpoising? If not that will cost you speed and RPMs. I understand that you are less interested in speed, but this is the best way to know if your prop is matched correctly. Remember if you go down in pitch the acceleration will improve, but you will turn the motor more for every mile you go and that will cost fuel and engine life.<br /><br />You also said that you run with four people most of the time, and that will inhibit your performance. I looked at the factory performance test on the web site and your boat is very typical in its performance. I will get to that next but let me address the ventilation / cavitation in turns. Most likely you are leaning hard in the turns (especially to port) and running bow down because the motor is not trimmed out enough (because the boat porpoises if you bring it out more.)<br /><br />A hydrofoil is very likely to aggravate this problem as they lift the stern more the faster you run. To compound the problem the hydrofoils lift the boat (extra lift) in the center which creates a teeter totter effect in turns ( make the boat lay over even more. <br /><br />A more aggressive prop may help, but not too much if the boat tends to lean hard in the corners, and the motor is not trimmed out properly. A Hi five prop may even exaggerate a list to port (prop torque) especially in left (port) turns. I had one on our 22 Searay and now have a Turningpoint three bladed aluminum for this reason.<br /><br />If you are looking for performance in the mid range and better towing performance, you need to get the hull to work for you. Currently your boat has a high bow rise up to about 10 to 12 MPH, then with more throttle you begin to plane and jump to 20 to 22 MPH. You can not run below this without coming off plane. The published test show this. <br /><br />A more aggressive prop will help the acceleration but not change the minimum plane speed much, and unless you accelerate with 3/4 to full throttle the bow will still rise sharply. The use of the hydrofoil will help a little in the acceleration to plane, but drive the bow down at higher speeds, and make it even more sensitive to leaning in turns. You have a 19 degree V. <br /><br />The other characteristics that you have not mentioned is the low speed wander which is annoying, and a harsh ride in heavier seas if the motor is not trimmed down. <br /><br />Before you by a prop it is most important to make the hull as efficient as possible, so that you get the most out of the propulsion system. All boats are designed to perform with predetermined characteristics and function. Ski Boats for skiing, barges for hauling heavy loads, and everything in between. To broaden the window of efficient operation, a section of the hull can be made to change, redesign, alter the hull design in concert with the ever changing conditions (weight, balance, speed, water conditions, etc.) These are called trim tabs, or in our case Smart Tabs. <br /><br />They are very common on Big boats and not so common on smaller boats. Why? There are three basic reasons: <br />1 the cost of helm controlled trim tabs is disproportionate to the cost of the smaller boats,.<br />2 the power to weight ratio of the smaller boats is usually 2X that of the larger boats, therefor they will plane (eventually)<br />3 is an answer I will reserve at this time so as not to offend the competition, but it is enough to say that small boats are used for the sporting activities you use yours for, and you have enough to do without adding more switches to control.<br /><br />Once you have dialed in the performance with the trim tabs then choose a prop if you wish. In this manner you are not burdening the prop with the jobs of boat attitude and handling. The prop can now be chosen for its sole purpose, PROPULSION. <br /><br />For what you want to use your boat for, nothing will work better than trim tabs or Smart Tabs. Our ST1290-60 is the model number you would use on your boat. They sell for under $200.00, and we guarantee the performance improvements.
 

Realgun

Commander
Joined
Jul 31, 2003
Messages
2,484
Re: Tried to search...no luck

I want my ckae and eat it to. Get a turning point propeller system and run your low pitch when watersporting and a hight pitch when you want speed. :) It a hub/prop system and its real easy to switch them out. <br />They have/had them on sale here at iboats. I have 1 for my 1988 force, long story,<br />Nobody fits then to that motor standard but it can be done.
 

Jdeagro

iboats.com Partner
Joined
Jul 30, 2003
Messages
1,682
Re: Tried to search...no luck

Realgun;<br /><br />You are missing the point. You want the prop to give you low end performance ( ie:better acceleration, easier planing, easier to tow) and then switch to the higher pitch prop to give you top speed. Not necessary! The Smart Tabs will give you far more low end performance and allow you to increase the pitch to get even more high at the end. You have not been in a boat with Smart Tabs so it is hard to immagine, but it is impressive and significant.
 

walleyehed

Admiral
Joined
Jun 29, 2003
Messages
6,767
Re: Tried to search...no luck

By realgun,<br /> "I want my cake and eat it too"<br />John just explained how you can do that....they do work, I've got a set on mine. They are a part of maximizing the set-up.
 
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