Trouble Bleeding Blackmax Trim

dsiekman

Senior Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Jul 7, 2010
Messages
798
Last fall I lost the trim motor on my '87 Blackmax 200. It had a two wire motor with relays installed (not sure if this was original or not). I replaced the motor with a new Arco unit and got it hooked up. I raised the trim all the way up/out with no weight on it to verify the motor worked. To bleed the system I put the motor on the safety lockout and opened up the fill port (rear fill, not side). I topped off the fluid and left the plug out. Following what I had seen online I manually lifted the leg and let it down onto the ram...at which point it came all the way down/in. I tried the trim several times with no luck. The motor runs but no movement on the leg. It does get to a point when trimming up where there is sort of a thud you can feel through the boat as if it is trying to apply pressure to the ram. I ran the trim in both directions a number of times but it never got any better. I also tried adding fluid but that is a challenge in and of itself. What am I doing wrong?

Yes, the manual pressure release is tightened back down.
 

dingbat

Supreme Mariner
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Nov 20, 2001
Messages
16,313
Filling: To properly check the fill, the trim/tilt rams must be extended. Raise OB all the way up (if you can't via the trim motor, then back off the manual release valve and with extra help, tilt/raise the OB all the way up and set it on its mooring/full raise lock, then re-tighten the release valve).

Tilt reservoirs are easier and best to fill IMHO when the boat is on a trailer, as you can lower the tongue all the way to the ground, as you want the tilt/trim reservoir as straight up & down as you can get it. This procedure is also best done with a helper to assist you, as they will keep their finger on the t/t UP button on the OB cowl, when needed.

Trim the OB all the way up and engage the full-up tilt support (or use a block ... you do NOT want an OB to fall on any bodypart !). Slowly open the t/t reservoir cap (allowing air to escape) and insert the trim fluid tube/nozzle. I use a small long/slender nozzle on the end of the recommended trim fluid container to help keep it in there.

Now this is where your assistant comes in. Have them press the t/t UP button as you put in ALL the fluid it will take. Keep pressing UP while the OB goes all the way up (off its supports), you will hear the t/t motor hit the bypass valve (the motor sound will change) and until the t/t reservoir won't take any more fluid and it starts to drip/gush out. Mind you, your helper's finger is still ON the UP button ... and while their finger is still pressing the UP button, quickly put the trim reservoir cap back on. All done!

FYI: the concept behind [red]"holding the UP button pressed while filling"[/red] allows the trim motor to suck in all of the fluid it can via the hydraulic system. Doing in this manner, you should not have to top off the reservoir again, hopefully for a loooooong time.

Bleeding: OB tilt/trim units are "self-bleeding" and you should always perform these "purge cycles" to follow even if you don't need to add any more fluid. To purge/check, remove the tilt lock (if engaged) and cycle the OB down by "jogging" it down, in 2-3 seconds runs. Then rest the motor a few seconds (akin to NOT cranking on a starter motor continuously), then cycle it UP all the way in one long blast.

Rest/pause again ... 10 seconds or more ... then repeat that complete cycle a few more times to ensure that it has bled all the air out of the t/t system. When bled of all air, you won't hear bubbling or gurgling as the OB starts its up or down cycle ... you should just hear a smooth start of the rams in motion.
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dsiekman

Senior Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Jul 7, 2010
Messages
798
No luck. I rigged up a funnel and tube with a rubber cone fitting from a brake bleeder jammed into the filler hole. I purged the air from the tube and made sure there was plenty of fluid. First I tried only operating in the up/out direction. I would run the pump for five or ten seconds and then let off letting the air from the reservoir flow back up the tube and escape. Must have done that a dozen times or so until I was only getting tiny bubbles. The pump was never able to lift the motor off its lockout. I lifted it off manually and let it down...it came all the way in. I did that cycle two or three times and never got anywhere. Did I give up too soon or am I missing something? When I pulled the fitting out of the fill hole fluid was pouring out, so I know there was plenty there. I could also see it moving down or being sucked up when I would run the trim up. Any ideas?
 

dsiekman

Senior Chief Petty Officer
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Jul 7, 2010
Messages
798
I suppose it is always possible that I somehow screwed up the install of the motor but I can't imagine how. The only thing I can think is that piece of the pump that came off with the motor got reinstalled 180 degrees off. From the look of it, though, it didn't look like there was a difference and I'm pretty sure I never fully removed it.
 

dingbat

Supreme Mariner
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Nov 20, 2001
Messages
16,313
How much fluid did you get into it? Takes close to 1/2 - 3/4 of a quart if I remember correctly
 

dsiekman

Senior Chief Petty Officer
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Jul 7, 2010
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798
I had only lost what was in the pump housing/motor, so it shouldn't have been empty. Maybe lost a half a cup or so. I probably tried to get 16 oz back in, some of which wound up on the driveway.Did I not run the pump long enough?
 

dsiekman

Senior Chief Petty Officer
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Jul 7, 2010
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So today I took everything back apart to verify the pump was in the right orientation. It was. The pump housing was only about half full so I topped it off to make sure it would prime. Refilled everything and tried again. Still no luck.

One thing I did notice was that the system had ATF in it. None of the clear tilt and trim fluid seems to have made it to the pump housing as it was still bright red. That seems odd to me.

When under no load the two smaller rams come up but I can push them back in by hand and won't carry the load of the outboard. I'm out of patience on this one. Any ideas?
 

dsiekman

Senior Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Jul 7, 2010
Messages
798
SOLVED!!! It was a stupid freaking o ring. It was crushed and not sealing. New o ring and we were off to the races!
 
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