Trouble Starting w/o Starter Fluid

boatgrunt

Petty Officer 1st Class
Joined
Aug 28, 2005
Messages
285
94 5.7 Merc Alpha I - I have read Don S' post on troubleshooting starting issues but can't quite pinpoint my problem. I have trouble starting the engine when it's cold. I have changed all the plugs/wires and am confident that I have good spark. I am getting fuel into the carb as well, but it seems that when starting the engine cold at the dock, I inevitably need starting fluid to get going. Once the engine warms up, she runs beautiful and will start again with one turn of the key. Do I need a carb rebuild?
 

firehog6305

Petty Officer 1st Class
Joined
Jun 30, 2007
Messages
283
Re: Trouble Starting w/o Starter Fluid

sounds like you have a choke issue, is your boat a manual choke, or hot air type??
 

Bondo

Moderator
Staff member
Joined
Apr 17, 2002
Messages
71,078
Re: Trouble Starting w/o Starter Fluid

Do I need a carb rebuild?

Possibly,........
But,........
I'd Fix the Choke 1st........

Btw,....... Starting Fluid has No Place on a Boat................
 

thrasher

Chief Petty Officer
Joined
May 23, 2007
Messages
443
Re: Trouble Starting w/o Starter Fluid

I have to agree with firehog.
You need to get access to the carb and remove the spark arrestor (looks like a chromed air filter on top of the carb) when the engine is cold and look down the inlet to the carb. You should have 2 butterfly valves in the carb, the lower one is the normal throttle valve, the top one is the choke.
When the engine is cold, the top butterfly should be closed (blocking the inlet to the carb, it won't completely close, but should be close to fully closed). If the butterfly is closed then the problem is unlikely to be the choke. If the butterfly is open, then either you have a defective choke or you are using the wrong procedure to start the engine.

You state that you have a carb, so when the engine is cold, before you start the engine, you should fully open the throttle twice by pushing the throttle control fully forward, then back to it's neutral position and fully forward again and back to it's neutral position. This does two things, the first is it will allow the choke butterfly to close (assuming your choke is automatic) and the second thing is that the accelerator pump will have squirted 2 doses of fuel into the inlet manifold which help a cold engine start.
You should then turn the ignition key and start the motor. Some carbed engines have the idle set faily low when hot, which often means the idle is too low for the engine to start when cold. This means that you may have to give a small amount of throttle when starting the engine from cold. Most throttle controls allow you to pull the throttle lever out and then move the throttle without engaing forward or reverse.

Hopefully some of this helps. Don't forget to put the spark arrestor back on at the end!! You only removed it to check the butterfly valve, not to use it like that.

Gary
 

180shabah

Rear Admiral
Joined
Mar 26, 2005
Messages
4,995
Re: Trouble Starting w/o Starter Fluid

...I have read Don S' post on troubleshooting starting issues but can't quite pinpoint my problem....

OK you read it, which of the items did you check, test, confirm or eliminate???

Sounds like a choke issue to me, unless you are using the EFI starting method(hit the key and go). I know both of these have already been mentioned, but they are the most likely culprits so I bring them up again.

Btw,....... Starting Fluid has No Place on a Boat................

Or a car,
Or a lawnmower,
Or a tractor......

:p
 

boatgrunt

Petty Officer 1st Class
Joined
Aug 28, 2005
Messages
285
Re: Trouble Starting w/o Starter Fluid

Thanks. I'll check the choke either tonight or tomorrow morning and post a response.
 

boatgrunt

Petty Officer 1st Class
Joined
Aug 28, 2005
Messages
285
Re: Trouble Starting w/o Starter Fluid

I have to agree with firehog.
You should have 2 butterfly valves in the carb, the lower one is the normal throttle valve, the top one is the choke.
When the engine is cold, the top butterfly should be closed (blocking the inlet to the carb, it won't completely close, but should be close to fully closed). If the butterfly is closed then the problem is unlikely to be the choke. If the butterfly is open, then either you have a defective choke or you are using the wrong procedure to start the engine.

Gary

Sorry for the late response. I checked the top choke valve, and it was "close to fully closed" when starting cold. Does that eliminate the choke from being the possible culprit? If so, then should a carb rebuild be my next stop?
 

Haut Medoc

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Jun 29, 2004
Messages
10,645
Re: Trouble Starting w/o Starter Fluid

Are you pumping the throttle twice & seting it at 1/3 before you start?.....
Do you get a good stream of fuel when you pump it?......:confused:
 

Haut Medoc

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Jun 29, 2004
Messages
10,645
Re: Trouble Starting w/o Starter Fluid


If you are getting fuel stream when you pump, try putting a pencil in the plate to open it slightly....:)
 

boatgrunt

Petty Officer 1st Class
Joined
Aug 28, 2005
Messages
285
Re: Trouble Starting w/o Starter Fluid

Once the motor was running, I did see what appeared to be more of a drizzle of fuel. At full throttle w/o the engine running, I couldn't detect a fuel stream.

As instructed, I pumped twice and left the throttle slightly forward. All this being said, when the engine is warmed, she starts/runs like a champ.
 

Haut Medoc

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Jun 29, 2004
Messages
10,645
Re: Trouble Starting w/o Starter Fluid


That fuel stream will (should) only happen as the throttle is being depressed.....
Have a helper pump it while you watch.....;)
You did not say if it started cold using the method above......;)
 

boatgrunt

Petty Officer 1st Class
Joined
Aug 28, 2005
Messages
285
Re: Trouble Starting w/o Starter Fluid

I pushed the throttle all the way forward and then went to the back of the boat to look. Should it be a continuous spray?

No, using the above method, it still did not start after sitting for a couple of weeks. The method did work after she sat one night though. It's confusing because I can't understand the difference 1 night would make compared to 2 weeks.
 

Haut Medoc

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Jun 29, 2004
Messages
10,645
Re: Trouble Starting w/o Starter Fluid

I pushed the throttle all the way forward and then went to the back of the boat to look. Should it be a continuous spray?
No, only when the throttle is being depressed.....
No, using the above method, it still did not start after sitting for a couple of weeks. The method did work after she sat one night though. It's confusing because I can't understand the difference 1 night would make compared to 2 weeks.
Fuel evaporating out of the fuel bowl......;)
Next time you want to start it after a few weeks, I would recommend pouring two ounces of fuel into the carb & then starting it......
You do need to verify that the accelerator pump is working, though.....
If you have no hesitation issues, it is prolly OK....;)
 

boatgrunt

Petty Officer 1st Class
Joined
Aug 28, 2005
Messages
285
Re: Trouble Starting w/o Starter Fluid

Nice...so I can use fuel w/o having the same damaging effects as with starter fluid? If that's the case, I'll just carry a little squirt bottle of gas for the really cold starts.
 

Haut Medoc

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Jun 29, 2004
Messages
10,645
Re: Trouble Starting w/o Starter Fluid

Nice...so I can use fuel w/o having the same damaging effects as with starter fluid? If that's the case, I'll just carry a little squirt bottle of gas for the really cold starts.
Absoloutely!.....
Yer engine runs on gas, not starter fluid........:)
 

Bondo

Moderator
Staff member
Joined
Apr 17, 2002
Messages
71,078
Re: Trouble Starting w/o Starter Fluid

I'll just carry a little squirt bottle of gas for the really cold starts.

Ayuh,.........

I can see a whole New bunch of Safety Issues with That......................:rolleyes:

Might otta just Fix it............
 

Nandy

Commander
Joined
Apr 10, 2004
Messages
2,145
Re: Trouble Starting w/o Starter Fluid

The biggest problem with the starter fluid is that it lacks the lubrication that you mix has, even worse, it will remove the little the motor already has if you use too much or too often. The method you mention will work fine. I had a friend with a similar problem. He made an adapter and will unhook the line from the motor hook it to his adapter, squirt some gas in the carb then hook the line again to his motor and start the motor. He did that until he blew a reed... then he fixed the reed and the carb.
Good luck!
 

180shabah

Rear Admiral
Joined
Mar 26, 2005
Messages
4,995
Re: Trouble Starting w/o Starter Fluid

Nandy, there is no mix, this is a chevy V8.

Question, do the v8, still use mechanical fuel pumps? I know that the 4.3 by this time had all been switched to electric pumps. If you have an electric pump you can do what I did. I had an extra switch on the dash, so I ran a wire from it, directly to the fuel pump. Now when the boat has been sitting for a while, I just hit the switch for 5-10 seconds and the fuel system is primed. No cranking and cranking, just pump the throttle and turn the key.
 

Nandy

Commander
Joined
Apr 10, 2004
Messages
2,145
Re: Trouble Starting w/o Starter Fluid

Nandy, there is no mix, this is a chevy V8.

Duh! My bad, then using the starter fluid should not be a problem, however, is not he cure as multiple members has posted here.
 

wire2

Lieutenant Commander
Joined
Jun 25, 2007
Messages
1,584
Re: Trouble Starting w/o Starter Fluid

Btw,....... Starting Fluid has No Place on a Boat................

Or a car,
Or a lawnmower,
Or a tractor......
:p

No but it's great stuff to seat a big tire to a rim with.
IF you don't mind risking chunks of rubber all over the shop...
 
Top