Troubleshooting Help: Ignition Switch on Older OMC

[Pmccraney]

Friends:

Me Again. Stumped Again. Working on a 1974 Johnson (85 h/p - V4) with original remote (Model No.: 85ESL74B).

Please put on your most sympathetic, willing to help hat, grab your beverage of choice and settle in:

Quick back story: When I bought and tested my old boat, the key kept falling out of the ignition while underway (bothered me)... So, as part of rebuilding and cleaning up the remote, I bought an OEM replacement ignition switch, carefully labeled all of the wires; took out the old and (attempted to) reconnect everything just as it was in the original that had the bad key toggle...

Fast forward 11 months: Just about done restoring my boat; have the engine hung on the back of the boat, and I've installed the controls by the helm with new cables, etc..... I wanted to just do a quick test, so I charged up my starter battery (over night); connected the main battery leads at the motor; connected the big red plug -- and was just going to give the key a quick "bump" to the key to see if I was getting power to the starter... (I wasn't going to run it without gas and and muffs obviously)... I turned the key, drumroll.... and nothing...silence....crickets.. The solenoid was not even clicking or anything...

So, first I tested the battery... good strong charge (moved my CMC tilt and trim up and down, etc...)...

Then, I took apart the remote to make sure the start in safety (neutral) switch was correctly adjusted and fully depressed (check)...

Then, I looked at the in-line fuse on the low-voltage starting circuit (didn't appear to be blown)...

So, then I figured I must have rewired the ignition switch wrong, so I spent the better part of last night reading everything I could find and even PMing with an electrical engineer to try and better educate myself... I rewired the igition switch from the wiring harness this afternoon and still nothing.

I have the following wires coming out of my wiring harness:

1. Solid red (bigger): I assuming this goes to "B"
2. Purple with a white stripe (always been attached to a terminal on the lower end of the choke switch).
3. Solid Purple: (always been attached to a terminal at the top end of the choke switch).
4. Off White: routed to the start in neutral safety switch.
5. Black with yellow stripe (engine kill thingy).
6. Gray (tach lead).
7. Tan (just sort of dangles there... has never been connected to anything as far as I can tell).
8. Black

Here is a picture of how I currently have these animals wired up (probably wrong). In the extremely unlikely event that I wired this right, then maybe I just bought a bum switch???



Sorry for the long narrative. I would appreciate any help.

 

[jbcurt00]

Re: Troubleshooting Help: Ignition Switch on Older OMC

I didn't stay at a Holiday Inn Express at all in the last 12 months, but could the tag end be the lead for a dead man (overboard) switch?

Didn't Jas have a DMS problem too?

 

[Pmccraney]

Re: Troubleshooting Help: Ignition Switch on Older OMC

P.S. After I re-wired everything I was connecting my battery cables which are old and pretty dirty (hard to tell the black from the red)... Despite their age, I know they are working (see below)..

I put the positive on the negative terminal by accident (because it fits)... Touched the negative terminal to the positive and got spark and realized the lug was too big... Had a quick "oh crap" moment and turned around saw a little puff of smoke coming from the top of the motor near where that in-line fuse is... (so I'm guessing its blown now and hoping I didn't burn anything else up)...

I am real smart and stuff, I promise..:facepalm:

 

[Watermann]

Re: Troubleshooting Help: Ignition Switch on Older OMC

I believe you could have also cooked the rectifier by reversing those power leads, is that where the smoke plume looked to have come from, next to the power pack?

I don't think I've ever seen a inline fuse blow smoke when that sealed little filament pops.

 

[classiccat]

Re: Troubleshooting Help: Ignition Switch on Older OMC

P.S. After I re-wired everything I was connecting my battery cables which are old and pretty dirty (hard to tell the black from the red)... Despite their age, I know they are working (see below)..

I put the positive on the negative terminal by accident (because it fits)... Touched the negative terminal to the positive and got spark and realized the lug was too big... Had a quick "oh crap" moment and turned around saw a little puff of smoke coming from the top of the motor near where that in-line fuse is... (so I'm guessing its blown now and hoping I didn't burn anything else up)...

I am real smart and stuff, I promise..:facepalm:

ouch! that smoke may have been the rectifier...I'd be surprised if it survived. let me know if the FSM doesn't have clear instructions on how to test your rectifier.

 

[classiccat]

Re: Troubleshooting Help: Ignition Switch on Older OMC

also, how is the choke wired-in? You should have a separate toggle for it...this ignition switch doesn't appear to be push-to-choke. EDIT: Nevermind, the text was tiny

the dangling brown wire should be going to your head-temp switch (should originate from the alarm itself...when the head gets too hot, the switch in the head closes completing the path to ground)

 

[Silvertip]

Re: Troubleshooting Help: Ignition Switch on Older OMC

You have several circuits to deal with so since the START circuit is the main concern at this point, let's work on it. When it comes to electrical trouble shooting you have two basic choices as to where to start. A) the far end (the starter) or B) the front end (the ignition switch). This technique starts at the ignition switch because that is what you messed with.

But before we get into that, here is a quick "general" test that will verify the solenoid and starter.
1) Using a short length of wire, jump the large terminal on the solenoid (the one with the big reg POSITIVE battery cable attached to it) to the small "S" terminal on the solenoid. This is the same as turning the key to START. The solenoid should energize and the starter should spin. If the solenoid does not energize you have bad battery cables, bad connections or a bad solenoid. If the solenoid energizes but the starter doesn't spin, try jumping the POSITIVE terminal of the battery directly to the large terminal on the starter. If the starter spins, then the solenoid was bad. If the starter does not spin, the starter is bad.
If you find all of these tests work as stated, (solenoid engages and starter works) then you continue below. If there are problems with above tests, fix the issue.

So the steps below apply ONLY if you verified the starter and solenoid are operational when jumpered.
1) Verify that you have +12 volts on the "B" terminal on the switch. That means check with a "voltmeter". If yes = that's good. If no = fix it. 12 volts passes from the large Positive battery cable to the starter solenoid. That large terminal also has a smaller wire that feeds the "B" terminal on the ignition switch.
2) With +12 volts on the "B" terminal, have someone turn the key to the START position while you check for +12 volts on the "S" terminal. Yes = good. No = bad switch (highly unlikely since the switch is new but nevertheless, possible).
3) With +12 volts on the "S" terminal, check for +12 volts at the small "S" terminal on the starter solenoid. Yes = good. No = fix it (that being a bad connection between the "S" terminal on the switch and the solenoid. Any connection between the helm and the engine is suspect here, including the connections inside the big engine connector.

 

[glenn property of pam]

Re: Troubleshooting Help: Ignition Switch on Older OMC

tan wire is for the temp alarm. ive included 2 links that will help ya sort out the rest of the wires

continuousWave: Whaler: Reference: Ignition Switch

JOHNSON, EVINRUDE, AND OMC STANDARD WIRING COLOR CODES -- Mastertech Marine

 

[classiccat]

Re: Troubleshooting Help: Ignition Switch on Older OMC

other then the head-temp switch being disconnected, the ignition looks to be wired correctly.

Do you have 12V at the Battery terminal on the ignition switch?

If yes, was the accessory node getting voltage when you moved it to the run position...and did you hear the choke activating?

 

[jbcurt00]

Re: Troubleshooting Help: Ignition Switch on Older OMC

Carp ^^^ it's like rapid fire replies...........

 

[Pmccraney]

Re: Troubleshooting Help: Ignition Switch on Older OMC

First off; let me say a sincere thank-you... I am humbled by what you guys know and your willingness to help me.

I believe you could have also cooked the rectifier by reversing those power leads, is that where the smoke plume looked to have come from, next to the power pack?

I don't think I've ever seen a inline fuse blow smoke when that sealed little filament pops.

I'm afraid so... Luckily, I have a really good o/b shop nearby and hopefully that can be replaced by someone who knows what they are doing... I do see that a replacement rectifier is available for my motor on marineengine.com and its reasonably priced.

ouch! that smoke may have been the rectifier...I'd be surprised if it survived. let me know if the FSM doesn't have clear instructions on how to test your rectifier.

See above... I'm flipping through my FSM right now and it has directions for testing just about everything - but the rectifier it seems.

the dangling brown wire should be going to your head-temp switch (should originate from the alarm itself...when the head gets too hot, the switch in the head closes completing the path to ground)

Got it... Thanks!

You have several circuits to deal with so since the START circuit is the main concern at this point, let's work on it. When it comes to electrical trouble shooting you have two basic choices as to where to start. A) the far end (the starter) or B) the front end (the ignition switch). This technique starts at the ignition switch because that is what you messed with.

But before we get into that, here is a quick "general" test that will verify the solenoid and starter.
1) Using a short length of wire, jump the large terminal on the solenoid (the one with the big reg POSITIVE battery cable attached to it) to the small "S" terminal on the solenoid. This is the same as turning the key to START. The solenoid should energize and the starter should spin. If the solenoid does not energize you have bad battery cables, bad connections or a bad solenoid. If the solenoid energizes but the starter doesn't spin, try jumping the POSITIVE terminal of the battery directly to the large terminal on the starter. If the starter spins, then the solenoid was bad. If the starter does not spin, the starter is bad.
If you find all of these tests work as stated, (solenoid engages and starter works) then you continue below. If there are problems with above tests, fix the issue.

So the steps below apply ONLY if you verified the starter and solenoid are operational when jumpered.
1) Verify that you have +12 volts on the "B" terminal on the switch. That means check with a "voltmeter". If yes = that's good. If no = fix it. 12 volts passes from the large Positive battery cable to the starter solenoid. That large terminal also has a smaller wire that feeds the "B" terminal on the ignition switch.
2) With +12 volts on the "B" terminal, have someone turn the key to the START position while you check for +12 volts on the "S" terminal. Yes = good. No = bad switch (highly unlikely since the switch is new but nevertheless, possible).
3) With +12 volts on the "S" terminal, check for +12 volts at the small "S" terminal on the starter solenoid. Yes = good. No = fix it (that being a bad connection between the "S" terminal on the switch and the solenoid. Any connection between the helm and the engine is suspect here, including the connections inside the big engine connector.

Silvertip: Thank you taking the time to walk me through this... I will definitely run the tests you mentioned first and then report back. This will give me a good opportunity to break in my new multimeter...

tan wire is for the temp alarm. ive included 2 links that will help ya sort out the rest of the wires

continuousWave: Whaler: Reference: Ignition Switch

JOHNSON, EVINRUDE, AND OMC STANDARD WIRING COLOR CODES -- Mastertech Marine

Thanks Glen: The first article was the reading I referred to above... Got it printed and sitting on my desk as I type this. The second link is also helpful.. Thanks for pitching in to the effort.

other then the head-temp switch being disconnected, the ignition looks to be wired correctly.

Do you have 12V at the Battery terminal on the ignition switch?

If yes, was the accessory node getting voltage when you moved it to the run position...and did you hear the choke activating?

I did not hear the choke activating... Was looking back and did not see the choke plunger dive, nor any audible sounds.. I did not test for +12V at the B or A nodes/terminals, but will do as part of the troubleshooting sequence that ST and others have laid out. Thanks!

Carp ^^^ it's like rapid fire replies...........

I know... I'm very appreciative... (l think many in the dry dock crowd followed me over here to watch the carnage unfold) .

 

[Watermann]

Re: Troubleshooting Help: Ignition Switch on Older OMC

Yeah I'm guilty as charged... but I also hang out in the Johnson/Rude outboard threads.

 

[Trooper82]

Re: Troubleshooting Help: Ignition Switch on Older OMC

Hope it isn't something super simple being over looked...I pulled on a rope winding Merc one time for two day...cause I knew I had the plug wires on the correct cylinders....it was a 2cylinder motor....my dad stopped by and suggested I just try swapping them....fired on the first pull:facepalm:

 

[Pmccraney]

Re: Troubleshooting Help: Ignition Switch on Older OMC

Update:

Did the jumper test and the starter and solenoid are both good! Thanks Silvertip.

I then checked for +12V at the "B" terminal on the starter switch... At the risk of sinking further into public humiliation, I will share that I got some really strange readings on the meter (and yes, it was set to DC voltage)... I had the red probe on the "b" terminal (red wire) and the black on the "M" (black ground) and the meter was jumping all over the place... The only number range it would ever settle on was in the high 60s, low 70s... So, I either had the probes wrong or did something else wrong...

And, yes, I tested the rectifier and it is toast.

Thanks,

 

[glenn property of pam]

Re: Troubleshooting Help: Ignition Switch on Older OMC

are you on the black or the black with yellow stripe. Make sure its the black one

 

[Pmccraney]

Re: Troubleshooting Help: Ignition Switch on Older OMC

are you on the black or the black with yellow stripe. Make sure its the black one

It was on the pure black one...

 

[classiccat]

Re: Troubleshooting Help: Ignition Switch on Older OMC

Getting there Patrick! Good deal on the Starter/Solenoid :thumb:

If you have an auto-ranging multimeter, there's a chance that it was measuring millivolts (essentially zero).

Was it tested with the bad rectifier in place? Regardless, remove the bad rectifier completely and continue troubleshooting.

Did you test continuity across your inline fuse?

 

[Pmccraney]

Re: Troubleshooting Help: Ignition Switch on Older OMC

Getting there Patrick! Good deal on the Starter/Solenoid :thumb:

If you have an auto-ranging multimeter, there's a chance that it was measuring millivolts (essentially zero).

Yes, its auto-ranging..., I bet that is exactly what was happening... (which makes sense...see below)...

Was it tested with the bad rectifier in place? Regardless, remove the bad rectifier completely and continue troubleshooting.

Did you test continuity across your inline fuse?

I'm pretty sure the fuse is bad... I got infinite resistance on the ohms test and my multi-meter has audible continuity test and I got no beep. I've got the fuse on order (ordered a couple with the new rectifier last night)...

Thanks Chris - you the man!

 

[Pmccraney]

Re: Troubleshooting Help: Ignition Switch on Older OMC

Guys:
I can't thank you enough for helping me troubleshoot this issue. I do believe the problem has been solved (and the fuse was the culprit)... See video:

Still waiting on the new rectifier to come in....

P.S. since this has now been moved to the Johnny-Rude forum, I will also share the new decals I put on the cowling yesterday:



And:



Thanks again! Once I get the fuel lines hooked up (and can test it on the muffs), I'll report back..

 

[classiccat]

Re: Troubleshooting Help: Ignition Switch on Older OMC

good deal! Now you know that starting circuit inside-and-out!

...and soon you'll know the "alternator" circuit as well

that motor is going to turn some heads! awesome job!