turns over no spark??? no V at SW M&M?

[tnstreamy]

Newbie again I was able to get the wiring harness in, with ya'lls help.
I turn the key I have starter, and choke, novoltage at either M poles?
At KEY: S = Yellow to starter solenoid reads 11.4 when key is turned to start motor turns over fast, B = Red to Batt reads 12V all the time with batt connected, C = Green to choke solenoid activates upon key being pushed in, M = White to Tach on connector with the key in the "on" position 0 V, other M = Blue to blue on connector to CDI/E-Fuel pump with the key in the "on" position 0 V.
With the key in the "on" position: 0 volts to cdi, micro elec fuel pump = no spark with starter engaged!
Note the "I" on the switch has no connection as per everyones suggestions and diagrams, and with key in "on" position it has 12V. I though this was for switched 12V leg to accessories and instrument cluster like the tach?
Either my switch is bad, or I have miss wired something??
Should i switch the blue to I for the ignition circuit?

 

[tnstreamy]

Re: turns over no spark??? no V at SW M&M?

best way to explain it
Key switch 3 position with choke push, and wiring harness came from online vendor.
Key SW "identifier letter" = wiring color in harness to '70 Chrysler 70hp wiring block discription.

S = Yellow to "starter" on motor block engine turns over great.

C = Green to "choke" on motor block choke solenoid works good.

M = White to "Tach" on motor block, no voltage with key on no connection I will run a wire to the tach output on the CDI box for tach input.

I = has no connection yet, It has 12V when key is "on", was going to connect to tach +V side.

M = Blue to "Ignition" on motor block, no voltage with key in the "on" position, connected to sm-red to EDI, red to Elec Fuel pump, green to + distributor pole(Points style).

B = Red to "Battery" on motor block, with Batt connected 12V .


I get no spark due to no Voltage on either "m" with key on?
NOTE: there is "generator connection with a motor wire connected but no indication where to go forward with it? If I look at different key types they say put the magneto to the "M" on the sw and a ground to the other "M"?

 

[Silvertip]

Re: turns over no spark??? no V at SW M&M?

Electric Fuel Pump and two M terminals raises questions about what engine you have. If it is a carbed two stroke, you won't measure voltage on the two "M" terminals. Shorting those two terminals is what kills the engine. The "I" terminal is not typically used on a two stroke since they have "magneto ignition" systems vs a "battery ignition" system on a four stroke engine such as an I/O. So explain what it is you have for an engine. If you've added an electric fuel pump to a carbed engine without implementing a safety kill system you have created a potential bomb. Now back to the "I" terminal. That terminal applies 12 volts to the ignition on a battery ignition system. It is not used on a 'magneto" system. The "B" terminal is the 12 volt INPUT to the switch from the battery whereas the "A" terminal is the accessory feed (output) of the switch for -- well -- accessories. So if you want a fuel pump to run, it obviously needs to be connected to the "I" or "A" terminals.

 

[tnstreamy]

Re: turns over no spark??? no V at SW M&M?

thank you for replying
I purchased a used 1970 Chrysler 70 3 cyl, the previous owner had made the two mods to it. A Mr Gasket Micro Electric fuel pump and a MSD CDI Street-Fire unit. When he took it off his pontoon he said he just disconnected the harness and cables from it and it was running, and may need carbs cleaned. He kept his wiring harness and key sw thus I had to purchase another one.

On this sw I do not see an "A" just the 6 poles described above.

After looking at this site and MarineDrs site as well as the MSDs site for the troubleshooting on the 5520 EDI box. I disconnected the white from the Dist and put the coil wire 1/4 " away from ground turn key on and strike the white lead on ground and I should have seen a spark nada!

I opened the distributor cap and do not see old style points but a black block which I assume takes the place of mechanical points however is still considered a points system?, in tracing the two leads from the distributor, the "White" lead goes to the EDI unit and the other a "light Green" goes to the Blue connection "Ignition" on the motors wiring block. There are two more leads on the Blue "Ignition" one small red lead that goes to the EDI box and another red lead to fuel pump. Tested both with key on no Voltage.

Now you say a "Bomb" has been created ??? that's comforting..
Is this the wrong key sw for a 1970 70hp Chrysler with a stator (magneto?)?
Should I get a three pole or?

 

[Silvertip]

Re: turns over no spark??? no V at SW M&M?

BOMB = a potential problem exists when using an electric pump on an engine that was not designed for one. On ECM (computerized) engines, the ECM knows when the engine is not running and it then shuts off the fuel pump to prevent it from filling the engine with fuel. Now you say the pump can't run with the key off which is very true. However, consider a stall situation where you "forget" to turn the key off, or in the event of an emergency such as a carb needle and seat issue that floods the engine. You now try to restart the engine and KABOOM. Any electric fuel pump MUST have a dead engine disable system so the pump cannot run with the key in RUN and engine stopped.

I have no idea what the wiring looks like for your CDI ignition system and the electronics inside and outside the distributor takes the place of the points. You need to find a diagram for that system since it is aftermarket. If the CDI unit requires a +12 volt source to operate, then you need a switch that has an "I" terminal. If that "I" terminal does not stay active in the START position, then you need a starter solenoid that has an "R" (resistor) terminal on it to keep the ignition active while cranking. You don't need a resistor however. You also don't need the two "M" terminals if the above is true since you have a "battery ignition" system rather than a "magneto system". All of this depends on what the CDI unit requires for inputs. So unless you provide that info, we can't help much. Based on what I've seen so far, I'm guessing you simply have it wired wrong.

 

[tnstreamy]

Re: turns over no spark??? no V at SW M&M?

thanks for responding again, the help you give is great!!

OK the CDI pack is a MSD/Street-Fire 5520 this link gets you there.
http://www.street-fire.com/cdiignition.html I am going to read the specs and see what it's about.

I assume you are correct since previous owner had it working must be wiring so I'll try the blue to "I" it should correct the no spark but now I'm concerned about the issues you pointed out!
How to rectify with some relatively cheap shut off system? The "generator" stator/magneto is only on when engine turning could that be used? Inertia relay but with no oil is there any press in crank? Is there a ignition switch for this application? what to do?
I'm going to ask previous owner about old f pump why he switched.

Thx

 

[tnstreamy]

Re: turns over no spark??? no V at SW M&M?

YES YES the "I" to blue worked... great the old girl fired up after 2 sec or so and was a little high on idle.
I adjusted the cable end that is secured and lowered the idle needs some more still. She doesn't seem to open up to WOT only sounds medium throttle? cables probably.

Don't know if I have to connect anything to the "M" s or not ?

Will the "generator" stator/magneto charge the battery via the regulator or is there another reason they have "Gen" on the wiring block of the motor?

thanks again for the help you all are great.
S

 

[Silvertip]

Re: turns over no spark??? no V at SW M&M?

If the engine starts and stops with the ignition key, then you do not need the "M" terminals. You still need to have a kill switch and lanyard however. That would require one for an I/O (battery ignition) as they OPEN the "I" circuit to kill the engine whereas one for an outboard CLOSES to short the two M terminals which grounds the standard ignition. Some of those kill switches are universal, meaning they have four terminals (two for closed and two for open). YOu would wire the switch between the "I" terminal and the blue wire to the CDI unit.

The engine will charge the battery with no further connections on your part. The wiring block on the engine (stator output) feeds the rectifier/regulator which has a small wire going to the starter solenoid terminal that has the POSITIVE battery cable connected to it.