unhappy buyer

[edzzed]

hi, i would ask a question of the forum members here. i sold a boat to a buyer. he came by to look at the boat and we arranged a lake test. took it out for 20 minutes then loaded on trailer, changed props and put it back in the water for another 20 minute test. the 1st time i ever had it in the water there was an audible engine noise, been there since i owned the boat. same noise with the buyer, he asks what the noise is so i tell him i assume it is the water pump or some other minor issue and that it (noise) has always been there. so he offers 9g on an asking price of 10600.00 i reluctantly agreed after chatting with my wife. he takes the boat away. i cash the check. TWO WEEKS LATER, i get an email that he says he bought a boat with piston problems. i did not know. he now wants me to cough up 1/2 the repair bill. i says as much as i'd like to help and feel bad about it i point out he did not ask to allow a shop to take a look at the engine knowing it had an audible noise. i also point out he did not ask for any warranty or help with future issues should the noise be serious. i look at it as though, were i buying it i would ask for guarantees as a condition of sale. especially given that a noise was apparent. what would you do in this case. brush him off, split the cost, take the boat back, or add your own suggestion. keep in mind i spent the money on a sailboat. Ed

 

[tashasdaddy]

Re: unhappy buyer

in the world of buying used, let the buyer beware. you came off the price 1,600. he new the noise was there, and did not have it checked out. he went on two test runs, and bought it, as is.

 

[WillyBWright]

Re: unhappy buyer

Private party sales are always As Is unless stated otherwise. You did more than many would do already.

 

[JB]

Re: unhappy buyer

I would tell him to apply the $1600 that you discounted the boat to the repair bill. That is assuming that the wrench that told him it has "piston problems" is not just inventing work that isn't really needed.

On a private deal unless there is a written warranty there is no warranty.

 

[Texasmark]

Re: unhappy buyer

You have a piston problem that you have had for as long as you had the boat? One would think that sort of problem would get worse and finally bring down the engine.

Agree on buyer beware. You get what you get. Course if the seller deliberately lied to you that's called Fraud. Agree that the $1600 could be construed to be half the repair bill on your part if it came to that. The last time I had an engine overhaul it was bored 30 over, new pistons and all and the bill was only $1000.

Mark

 

[Rob454]

Re: unhappy buyer

Well he bought it. I bought my boat and the motor went south on the second time out. Sucked but I didnt think the guy lied to me when I bought it. i didnt hear any weird noises either.
Personally I would of had the boat checked out by a shop or I woudl of gone out on a longer ride. its simple to pay 100$ for the gas for a couple of hours.
If you truthfully never knew the problem and never heard the noise then I think youre ok you didnt fradulently sell the guy a boat. But if you knew about it and plain lied then shame on you. There are enough dishonest people in the world today.. I guess he could take you to court and claim that you knew about the problem but tried to make it as small a problem as possible by telling him its a water pump noise, the judge may or may not believe you. There are too many peopel out there who sell stuff they know is a POS and pass it as either a minor problem or try to hide it because everyone thinks well once you buy it its your problem. I successfully sued two car dealerships and won when they sold me faulty cars.

Good luck
Rob

 

[jimmbo]

Re: unhappy buyer

Since he had it two weeks, maybe he ran it and forgot to put oil in the gas?

 

[edzzed]

Re: unhappy buyer

Well he bought it. I bought my boat and the motor went south on the second time out. Sucked but I didnt think the guy lied to me when I bought it. i didnt hear any weird noises either.
Personally I would of had the boat checked out by a shop or I woudl of gone out on a longer ride. its simple to pay 100$ for the gas for a couple of hours.
If you truthfully never knew the problem and never heard the noise then I think youre ok you didnt fradulently sell the guy a boat. But if you knew about it and plain lied then shame on you. There are enough dishonest people in the world today.. I guess he could take you to court and claim that you knew about the problem but tried to make it as small a problem as possible by telling him its a water pump noise, the judge may or may not believe you. There are too many peopel out there who sell stuff they know is a POS and pass it as either a minor problem or try to hide it because everyone thinks well once you buy it its your problem. I successfully sued two car dealerships and won when they sold me faulty cars.

Good luck
Rob

the boat always had a funny noise to it. he did ask about it on the test ride and i did tell him i thought it was the water pump but don't know for sure. when he came back at me saying piston problems i asked if he was sure and did a mechanic take the engine apart to verify that. i also told him that i didn't think there would not be enuf hours on the meter to have piston problems. i always lived with the noise and thought if it breaks i will fix or if need be get someone else to fix it. as long as the boat still ran great and performed well why fix it if not broken.
he heard the noise as he did ask about it. he could have asked about taking it to a mechanic for a quick consultation at his cost. or he could have asked about some kind of contract for repairs to deal with the noise. he now says his brother is a mechanic 500 miles away who will do the repairs. seems a little hard to authenticate any potential issues once they tear the engine down. if his brother tears down the engine that would eliminate any small claims court issue. in all honesty i do feel horrible about this issue. i'm not out to scam anyone especially an RCMP officer. his friends could land me in jail on trumped up charges. ED

 

[WillyBWright]

Re: unhappy buyer

What motor are we talking about? Perhaps it's intrinsic. A lot of 2-strokes have more piston slap than 4-strokes just because the clearnaces are necessarily larger. There are a lot of mechanics out there. But a Train mechanic (for instance) is unlikely to know a hoot about an outboard.

 

[Windykid]

Re: unhappy buyer

You dont owe him anything. He could have beaten up the engine playing hard with it. You already discounted the sale. Buyer be smarter next time.

 

[BF]

Re: unhappy buyer

words that apply to this situation.... "As is".... written on every receipt that I make out. Even if you didn't write that, there was no warranty implied. If he wanted a warranty, he could've spent more and bought a new boat. If he was worried about the noise, he could've asked for "subject to mechanical inspection" where you would've agreed that he could take it to a shop for the once over before closing the deal.

Don't fret over it. Either he didn't understand the risks of buying used equipment, or he's figuring that for the cost of a couple phone calls he might guilt you into coughing up cash to fix HIS boat. Either way, not your problem. Yes, you can be sure that the "As is" condition is why he made the offer below your asking price.

If it were me, I'd be polite and sympathetic, but beyond that I'd have no interest in what some mechanic I don't know says is wrong with his boat. It wouldn't take long for my politeness to evaporate if he was pushy. It'd be a flat "no" about me putting any of my money into it!

edit--

I just read the part about him being an mountie... and your mention of small claims court. I've been through small claims once (as the plaintiff). If this is something he brought up, it speaks more to him trying to bully you than having a real case. Even if he files a claim, my small claims court experience was very positive. You explain things to the judge in everyday language. He/she asks questions, then they make a ruling. I'd say the boat was sold "as is"... end of case. A mountie would know that.

 

[jimmbo]

Re: unhappy buyer

Never trust a cop. Ever

 

[woodduck17]

Re: unhappy buyer

If you were honest and above board about the motor then the problem is his to deal with. Every time I sell something I print 2 bills of sale and we both have a signed paper saying "as is--no warantee". Remember the old saying" A deal is made when both parties are satisified".

 

[kenmyfam]

Re: unhappy buyer

Unless you expressed a warranty on the receipt for the purchase or on any other document that you gave him when the transaction was made then there is no comeback whatsoever. For the future the "as is" words are the best insurance you can get against any comeback from a disgruntled buyer.

I have bought and sold many "used" items and when selling a car, boat etc I always put on the receipt and make 2 copies (one each)

Date and time,
The sellers name and address
Buyers name and address
Buyers Drivers License number
The item description with all serial numbers
the price being paid
Then the words
The (items being sold) are sold as seen tried and tested by the buyer and are sold without any expressed warranty whatsoever.

Both sign and date the document
One signed and dated copy each

No comeback whatsoever....unless of course you are selling stolen goods !!!! LOL

 

[redfury]

Re: unhappy buyer

I feel your unease, I've just been there. I sold a mobile home for literally dirt cheap. The buyer planned on moving it out of the court it was in. they asked me if it had the hitch. I told them I would assume it did, but did not know for certain as I'd never had a reason to look ( this was in the middle of winter after 2 feet of snow fell ). Long story short, he tries to guilt me into paying for half of a hitch to be welded to it. Sorry, I sold it as is, and the price would have been the same if they had kept it in the court, not to mention I kept the gas and electric on for a month so the pipes wouldn't freeze until they got a chance to get it hooked up to move!

Some people will do everything they can to get you to pay for a 'mistake' on their part, whether it not making sure the trailer hitch was there, or that the noise in the engine wouldn't end up in disaster 2 weeks later.

It really upset me that someone would call me dishonest like that. I went out of my way to make the deal work as you did. I don't think I'd have swapped props out and gone out for the second ride just for a sale. I'd say you did what you should do as an honest seller, and the buyer just didn't know how to cover his assests.

Take a few breaths and forget about it. I stewed over my deal for a couple of weeks and it really made me a pain to be around. He'll get the engine fixed and the memory of you will be erased from him forever.

 

[Robj]

Re: unhappy buyer

Piston problem?? That is a vague description of what could be a number of problems ranging from not very serious to serious in nature. If you were running the engine for a while with this problem and it ran great, could it just be piston slap? I've had piston slap on auto engines, and it is not a problem that warrants a rebuild. In many cases the only sign that you have a problem is the slight noise coming from the engine. Sure there are many 2 stroke experts out there, if you have a small amount of piston slap does that warrant a rebuild? Personally I do not think so, monitor it, and if the noise remains the same, I would just leave it, if it starts getting worse, then start thinking rebuild time.

I think he knew what he was getting. Maybe he wants a new motor and wants you to finance it for him.

Have a great day,

Rob.

 

[Vlad D Impeller]

Re: unhappy buyer

Yo! Forget about it , go sailing.

 

[kenmyfam]

Re: unhappy buyer

Yo! Forget about it , go sailing.

That is good advice !!!!

 

[deejaycee_2000]

Re: unhappy buyer

Hey Rob, read his post carefully, you are missing something man ..... anyway .... when selling anything privately, it is automatically accepted that you buy it as is .......

 

[pecheux]

Re: unhappy buyer

Edzeed lives in Canada,

Officialy a sale 'AS IS' is no longer legal in this country when the sale is from a dealer to a private buyer.

On a private sale the buyer could take him to small claim court ... but then would have to prove edzeed was lying about the noise and that is not easy and obviously not the case ...

I beleve the previously posted recommendation to offer the buyer to apply the $ 1600. rebate on the cost of repair is more than fair and would be a winner situation in a small claim court.

But if it was me ... I would put this down in writing and mail it to the buyer ... in order to have some written proof of goodwill to show to a juge in case the buyer pushes his claim to a small claim court.

Amen