USCG Boarding?

[krosemond]

Here is a topic for discussion:<br /><br />Why do we tolerate as boaters the harassment of the Coast Guard and Wildlife officers who have the right to board our vessels at will and without probable cause? Don't get me wrong, I appreciate that they are there for our safety, but I was in Morehead City, NC last weekend and there were 8 wildlife officers pulling over every boat that they could, without probable cause. The turning basin area had been recently turned to "no wake" and I agree that needs to be enforced for everyone's safety. But they were pulling boats over that were not in violation of the no wake rule. I was checked by three separate officers, and I heard that others had multiple stops as well. I felt harassed, as I had all required equipment and was not in violation of any laws.<br /><br />Living in South Florida, I used to get boarded alot, because I ran to the bahamas alot. I was told that it was the right of US Customs and the USCG to board any vessel because of the close proximity to our borders, and for reasons of National Security. I can actually agree with that.<br />But on our lakes and coastal waters inside our inlets, why shouldn't our rights as citizens on land apply to the water? <br /><br />Just a thought.

 

[12Footer]

Re: USCG Boarding?

Krosemond, I think they do it because they can. After any given Memorial Day, July 4th weekend, it's obvious they either have a quota,or they enjoy the practice. I tend to believe it's a quota. Us boaters see them as lucky guys who get paid to be out there on the water,when they probably are waiting for thier shift to end.<br />Either way, I have been boarded by some real sadistic officers. I've also been boared by some who were all buisness,and still others just looking for safety equipment.<br />I got so angry one time, I came home and installed a video camera in the bow light housing,and a 12VDC VCR under the wheel dash.I've never used it other than testing,but I am ready to have the next Marquis DeSade's badge

 

[JB]

Re: USCG Boarding?

Yes, Krosemond, you have opened a can of worms, here. We can have a grand time disagreeing on this one.<br /><br />I used to get stopped regularly coming in from the blue water or the Bahamas and once I did get boarded. The CG Officers were always courteous, but, then again, so was I.<br /><br />Then one morning I found a couple of floating "square groupers" off Port Everglades and called them. After that Sunshine was treated like a visiting friendly Man O' War.<br /><br />The conservative, libertarian side of me wants to think "probable cause" when approached . . . particularly by local/state/provincial officers, but as long as they are courteous and professional it's a minor inconvenience. In coastal or border waters, however, "probable cause" is irrelevant to the mission of USCG or any other coastal security agency. A fact recognized in international maritime law.<br /><br />I suspect that some CG and Wildlife Officers have the "junkyard dog" recognition of hostility and respond in kind by abusing their power.<br /><br />BTW, SeaBear, "square groupers" are packaged bales of dope. Dumping them from ships at night in the Gulf Stream was a favorite smuggling technique. Small boats would pick them up and run them in to the beaches. A few got missed. That's what I found.<br /><br />Now, who's going to point out how wrong I am??<br /><br />JB :ROLLEYES:

 

[JB]

Re: USCG Boarding?

:ROLLEYES: ??? That's not what I meant!

is what I meant.

 

[SeaBear]

Re: USCG Boarding?

JB actually JC sounds better as nice guys like Jesus and John Cleese have those initials!! Many Thanks for adding the note for me - I thought it meant dead bodies until I read the explanation!<br /><br />I had no idea you had to put up with these guys so much? I don't know of anyone personally who has been stopped by our coast guard or police or even harbour master for any reason ... well apart from me 16 years ago stationary in the river at 11pm with no lights on - had an electrical failure and the harbour master towed me home! There are a few who ignore the river speed limits who should be stopped but none of the above are ever around to catch them! Actually the harbour master's launch does kick up a bit of a wash itself but they can can't they - like cops speeding I suppose?<br /><br />I have heard our coast guard are starting to catch drug boats trying to sneak across the channel ... shark bait is too good for them!

 

[krosemond]

Re: USCG Boarding?

In defense of the NC Wildlife officers in question on the weekend I referred to, they were very courteous and so was I. And it was nothing but a minor inconvienence. The question I raise is twofold: Should they have the right to board at will, and is it necessary to do so? But then again, roadside safety checkpoints seem to be perfectly legal, and I don't see much difference, other than they can't climb in your car without probable cause or consent. I don't blame the officers, just the institution. And on the day in question, I was not actually boarded, just checked.

 

[Frank]

Re: USCG Boarding?

I was checked by the FWC one morning for my fishing license. Officer did not ask to see any fish that I had caught or inspect any safety equipment. Officer leaves spinning around my boat getting on plane. Scares all the fish so I move five miles down the ICW. Two hours later the same FWC officer pulls up and asked to see my fishing license again. The name of the boat is four inches high in red letters along both sides of the boat. If the officer could not remember the boat or the passengers of a boat he just boarded two hours earlier how could he be competent to do his job. I tried to tell him he had just checked it but he had to see it again anyway. Still did not ask to see any fish or inspect any equipment. I believe this to be a case of a mentally challenged officer and not true harassment.

 

[wesal1]

Re: USCG Boarding?

I have been boared 8 times 4 times they abused their power and 4 times they were nice<br />down here in l.a.(lower alabama) you can not get out of the lauch without going pass a coast gaurd or marine police station. If you want to go deep sea fishing you might get boared. But they do a good job at keeping the STUPID wave runner folks under control.<br />I guess this would be a even trade off if they were nice to me ever time they boared

 

[Capt Ron]

Re: USCG Boarding?

I can speak for the CG aspect of boarding as a D-8 Designated Boarding Officer during my last 2 years in the USCG. I can also speak about pulling dead bodies from the water as a Search and Rescue boat crewman. During most of the boardings that I performed I noted problems that had the potential to turn a family's fun day on the water to a nightmare that we may have had to respond to later. <br /><br />Boats are not cars, operating a boat is not like driving a car. Boats by law are required to have on board equipment supplied and maintained by the operator, unlike cars that you can jump in at the dealer and just buckle the seat belt to be legal and safe. <br /><br />Nobody has a "Quota" but they do get tired of seeing the same violations over and over again. Not only that but it's sad when a fatality occurs, think of it like a cop watching a drunk driver slip by him and kill an entire family.<br /><br />If you think that you are being harrassed then something that you are doing is making you stand out. <br /><br />I won't even start in on the problem of drinking and boating.<br /><br />Capt Ron

 

[Paddling]

Re: USCG Boarding?

I recently got checked by the USCG in the St. Augustine Inlet for a "Near Shore Safety Check", life jackets, throwable, fire extinguisher and flares. They were very courteous and even pointed out the good with the bad(one life jacket torn but I had more than needed). On the other hand I have been checked by the very aggressive Florida Marine Patrol many times, never ticketed, but I have never been left with a good feeling after the experience. I wonder if anyone knows why?

 

[MOTguy]

Re: USCG Boarding?

I have been boating in South Florida for 10 years and have never been boarded. The few times I have seen the FMP it is usually at the ramp or the dock. I have been checked by coast guard auxillary and FMP at the dock before heading out. I try to see both sides of the issue. I have noticed the "attitude" of the marine patrol. They are sometimes gruff and short. I understand how they must feel after seeing some of these idiots on the water. Hardly a weekend goes by where I don't see some major violations. I'm amazed there aren't more accidents. Next time one of the officers is rude, get his badge number and contact his supervisor. Recommend he get some sensitivity training. There is never an excuse for rudeness. And for ***ness sake, don't be confrontational. Don't let someone ruin a good day on the water. Happy Boating...

 

[12Footer]

Re: USCG Boarding?

I guess you would have to be on the recieving end, Capt Ron. I still think there is a qouta. Maybee not under normal conditions, but say, on Holidays and other heavy traffic events. Frinstance...I usually take the grandkids out on July 4th to watch fireworks. We have done it for years. But at this event, they have FMP, CG auxillary, Fort Myers Police,and Lee County Sherrif's Dept boats out there (Which I totally understand), BUT, these guys go around to every boat. So as you set anchor, they come, sometimes boarding two organizations at a time (to save time I guess). Most (99.9%)are either buisness-like, professional, and "just doing my job ,sir". Only a small percentage are rude,nasty, arrogant or threatening...But one is enough. I am trying to explain this ,but may be falling-short of my mark. Well, July 4th is comming up. I still have that camera setup in the boat. One picture will be worth a 1000 words. <br />It's not the CG, FMP, FMMU, or other agency that this thread addresses, Capt Ron.. It is the rouge agent. The guy with "issues" that<br />comes to work loaded for bear. All places of emplyment have one or two of these guys. But when they have a gun, you best do what they say, gather do***entation, and live to retaliate in court at a later date.

 

[12Footer]

Re: USCG Boarding?

Do***entation = dock-que-meant-tay-shun.

 

[RandyJ]

Re: USCG Boarding?

I'm now 50 years old, have been in boats many times virtually every summer since I was 3 or 4 years old, fished many lakes & rivers. I guess I'm just not the obvious type or something and my luck may change at any time but I've never had a game warden or marine police of any kind so much as approach my boat. I only know they are out there because I see them and on occassions have talked to a couple at docks.

 

[rowdy]

Re: USCG Boarding?

12footer said it best,usually it's done because they can.I have worked with marine unit's from my county and with FWC and there is no set quota or rule requiring boardings.I do know that here on Florida's east coast boardings are done for several reasons.<br /> 1.smugglers<br /> 2.underage drinking<br /> 3.intoxicated boaters<br /> 4.illegal fishing<br />Water cops are not that much different than the road guys some look hard for safety equipment just as some road guys will write everyone they stop for not wearing a seatbelt.<br />BUT the one thing they all have in common is the court system,if a case is made for any charge these guys want to be able to say NO I didn't single out your client I check everybody..<br />it's not as easy as people think to spot a smuggler,a drunk boater,or one of Florida's many stolen(and often used) boats the only sure trick is to stop as many as you can and go from there.

 

[ridiver]

Re: USCG Boarding?

I FULLY SUPPORT THE CG and others...BOARD ME ALL YOU WANT!<br /><br />And for those of you who give do not cooperate, consider the job they are trying to do as you make them spend more time than is needed at your boat.<br /><br />Keep in mind, one small boat with just 50lb of explosives would take out a Gas/Oil tanker. This would destroy (for years) all of those precious beaches and fishing grounds you were in such a rush to get to. <br /><br />So smile, let them aboard and let them move on so that they can do the job we really need them to do! <br /><br />(and this goes for the people who complain about the airport security lines too!) <br /><br />This is a WAR and if all you have to give up is 10 minutes of your time a couple times a summer you're getting off pretty darn easy! <br /><br />Just my ranting opinions.

 

[StAugVol]

Re: USCG Boarding?

Ok, here's my $0.02 worth.<br />It's interesting to see how everyone's comments have changed--or stopped--following the attacks of Sept. 11.<br /><br />I'm inclined to agree about the FMP officers being a tad on the aggressive side. The Coasties on the other hand, well, they need all the help they can get. We all oughta consider membership in the CG Auxiliary...<br /><br />I'm reminded of what my dad said once while teaching me to drive. I got a bit nervous at the presence of a cop next to me at the light. "Son, always remember that the Law is only a terror to those on the wrong side of it". He was right again... Amazing how much that guy knew now that I'm a dad.

 

[roscoe]

Re: USCG Boarding?

I get stopped by local dnr officer about 10 times a year. Usually on the same lake, while anchored. Twice in the same day. The lake is only 2 square miles. Always the same, license and registration, how's the fishing? Have a good day. He must have a quota or just need someone to talk to.??? <br /><br />Of the dozens of times I've been pulled over for a look see, they have never ever looked in my livewell or cooler for a game violation. Just check the paperwork.<br /><br />One day on Milwaukee harbor with my old 15' 6" aluminum and 15 hp, I had to cross the harbor entrance and the 3' waves were rolling in. There was a disabled 20' bowrider out there that needed a tow. Now I had to rev up to get power to tow and keep the bow above water, still only going about 3 mph, but was creating a wake!!!! Pulled over, sirens and all, written warning ticket. Ran my drivers license and all. Then they wanted to tell me where to tow the other boat to. I said sorry, I'm low on fuel, you'll have to take over from here. Needless to say, I was detained for a while longer and talked to. They even pulled out a tape measure to see if my boat was over 16' long. ????<br />State wardens have virtually unlimited search powers here in WIs. They can go anywhere, anytime.

 

[f_inscreenname]

Re: USCG Boarding?

I have to say I am both sides of the fence of this one. When I was a kid living on my grandparents island in Maine I would get nothing but respect from the marine cops. Yes sir, no sir at eight years old (always thought it was that my grandparents had a lot of political influence). Then I moved to Maryland and found out what the real world was like. One time I had a boat burning up a motor on a river and I was trying to get back to the ramp. Well here came the blue lights. I wasn't hard to catch doing about five miles a hour and smoking like a coal stove. I thought they came to help but I was wrong. As they pulled up beside I yelled to them "I am tiring to get to the ramp" and pointed to it. They said to shut it down. Felling better knowing that I had a tow I did. They asked to see the paper work (witch was in order) then he pulled out his ticket book. I then asked why I was getting a ticket knowing I was not speeding and he said for creating a wake (the bow was high for some reason,wasn't to worried about it at the time). After handing me the ticket he said "have a nice day" and took off. Now my motor was dead and I had this ticket in my hand for 60 bucks and head was ready to burst into flames. So for years I wouldn't pee on one of there boats if it was on fire. As the years gone by and I have a classic boat now the stops have gotten better (I get more questions on what kind of boat is it? What size motor is that, how many HP? then safety checks). They like to stalk you around here, like a trooper dose when they ride your bumper for miles. When I see them even look my way, just to end a timid situation I will shut it down and wait for them make there move and maybe after they leave they will leave me alone for the rest of the day and yes I agree that sucks! <br /> I think it realy comes down to is I and I am sure you expect better treatment on the water because the people on the water treat you better. I haven't seen anyone compare it to a roadway sobriety check point or what we have around here is drug enforcement check points. They can search you car if they don't like your looks. I know you can refuse the search by law but if you are not a lawyer its going to happen one way or another. Kind of like passing through the Brandenburg Gates on the way to the Home Depot.

 

[mattttt25]

Re: USCG Boarding?

i think capt ron said it best. they're doing their job and although i don't have statistics to show, i bet the majority of stops lead to a violation. they might bother us law abiding citizens that follow the rules and have all necessary gear aboard. but there are a lot of people out there with no life vests, signaling device, etc. boating in the chesapeake, you just know you'll be stopped by dnr atleast a few times each season.